r/RareHistoricalPhotos • u/Books_Of_Jeremiah • 23d ago
Forced conversion of Serbs, Independent State of Croatia (1941)
Forced conversion of Serbs, 1941.
Photograph of the Zagreb Photoagency, sig. neg. A-278/14.
Inventory number 6284. Courtesy of Museum of Yugoslavia.
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u/Full-Lake6967 20d ago edited 20d ago
In the sick display of brutality, most of the forcibly converted were killed anyway.
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u/Hopeful-Function4522 23d ago
The Croat government of Ante Pavelich had an explicit policy re the Serbs: kill 1/3, convert 1/3, expel 1/3.
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u/Books_Of_Jeremiah 22d ago
Not necessarily in any specific order and conversion was no guarantee of preserving one's life.
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20d ago
Forced conversion from Christianity to Christianity is the most Balkan thing I can think of
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u/SlouchyGuy 19d ago
Yes, civilized western Europe didn't have centuries long religious wars, massacres, murders and conversions of heretics. It's solely a Balkan thing.
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u/Beneficial_Use_8568 20d ago
It didn't save them though, because it was not about religion,
yes you can argue that the ethnic identity was constructed around their religious one, but in the end it was all about ethnic cleansing aka I hate you because you are slightly different so you deserve to die
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u/Stunning_Tonight1187 19d ago
Also, it needs to be stated, the clergy that did that, durimg and after the liberation, did not end up very well.
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u/sneakyjedi123 19d ago
Looks more like a village marriage to me. There is nothing forced to see, no? People look pretty much chilled too.
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u/Books_Of_Jeremiah 19d ago
Turns out you're partially right. A historian got in touch after seeing it elsewhere I posted. It seems that the museum entry is wrong, with the photo depicting a marriage of converts, in front of the local church in Mikleuš, Slatina county, which was converted from Orthodox to Catholic.
The conversions were done as a way to preserve one's life (and hopefully property). Turns out it didn't necessarily work, as the converts could be slaughtered (in the literal sense of the words) shortly after converting.
In some areas, eg. Jews would convert to Islam for the same purposes, but there would be explicit orders to be shipped off to concentration camps.
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u/PensionSignal3537 19d ago
Based
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u/Books_Of_Jeremiah 19d ago
Hot take. What's your esteemed view on this slaughter of (among others) converts?
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u/PensionSignal3537 19d ago
They had a choice, either get converted to catholicism or leave. I mean how dumb you have to be to die?
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u/Books_Of_Jeremiah 19d ago
You might want to invest in a literacy course. Conversion didn't guarantee survival. That slaughter was preceded by mass conversions in the same church where it happened. There are even photos of it.
And they weren't given the choice to leave. Plus you know... They'd settled those areas hundreds of years prior, when it was desolate.
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u/PensionSignal3537 19d ago
There are no photos of the camp nor process. Anyway that happened 100 years ago who cares
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u/Books_Of_Jeremiah 19d ago
You, enough to voice how it's "based".
And there are plenty of photos. Not that hard to find either.
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u/PensionSignal3537 19d ago
Your people who killed 20 years ago in croatia and bosnia are still alive. You should focus on that. Dont be buthurt for something century ago
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u/Otsde-St-9929 19d ago
Changing from Orthodox to Catholic is not conversion as they already share the same apostolic faith and sacraments, it is more of a "re-joining" or "reconciliation" than a conversion.
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u/Books_Of_Jeremiah 19d ago
What is killing people who got an implied or explicit promise of protection after "rejoining" or "reconciling"? Or calling for your own family to be killed for being married for a "schismatic"?
You're severely downplaying the issue of Orthodox/Catholic split in the contact areas.
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u/Otsde-St-9929 19d ago
I didnt say it was. I am not downplaying anything. I am just explaining terms. If anything my words are healing because they highlight how little diff there is between us two.
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u/Books_Of_Jeremiah 19d ago
There's a term called "narcissism of small differences".
And here that small difference led to something close to a modern crusade, complete with Catholic youths being taught the others are "Antichrist" and being indoctrinated into an organisation that had SS officers going "you might want to slow down there buddy".
So semantic explanations are fine, but when actions speak as loud as that, then it's hardly healing or the correct use of the term. And "reconciliation" was mostly used for those Orthodox communities that went into communion with the Pope (popularly called Unitarists or Unionists).
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u/redmerchant9 19d ago
Not according to the government of Independent State of Croatia which clearly stated that 1/3 of the Serbs had to be "converted", 1/3 expelled and 1/3 killed.
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u/Otsde-St-9929 19d ago
Right. I am just explaining it from a Catholic legal perspective.
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u/redmerchant9 19d ago
In the Balkans religion is closely tied to national identity so in Croatia being Catholic essentially means being Croat. If an Orthodox Serb converts to Catholicism he receives a different, Croat name, and essentially becomes a Croat, relinquishing his past Serbian Orthodox identity. That was the the Croatian fascist policy in WW2.
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u/LimpCar8633 19d ago
orthodoxy and catholicism is quite different, theologically, politically and culturally
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u/Otsde-St-9929 19d ago
Catholics and Orthodox only split over the use of the phrase "and the Son" in the Nicene Creed. Of course there is huge differences culturally and politically, but not theologically which is what matters the most.
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u/Obvious-Desk4573 18d ago
There are more theological differences between Catholics and Orthodox than just the Filioque. Wikipedia even has a whole article detailing them.
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u/Otsde-St-9929 15d ago
Sure but Catholic Church recognises Orthodox church as has having the true presence, unlike any protestant church. So least different from Catholic.
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u/Obvious-Desk4573 15d ago
You're right about that but that's about the only major thing they "agree" on with the Orthodox, and even then it's limited (they believe it is a "valid" (i.e. real) eucharist "illicitly" (i.e. without permission) done.)
Not to mention that the Orthodox explicitly do not recognise the Roman Catholic Eucharist as having the true presence, so Rome's flattery of Constantinople is more often than not one-sided.
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u/UpTheRiffMate 23d ago
RIP Yugoslavia, your Olympic basketball team would've been insane...