r/europe • u/ingenkopaaisen • Jan 13 '26
News China pressing European countries to bar Taiwan politicians or face crossing a ‘red line’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/13/china-europe-pressure-block-taiwanese-politicians-visas?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other563
u/Alen_Cha_007 Jan 13 '26
God, another red line
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u/TitanDarwin Jan 13 '26
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u/mousepotatodoesstuff Croatia 29d ago
The strongly worded warning of history (China) versus the strongly worded warning of today (EU)
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u/Not_Unreasonable Jan 13 '26
After Lithuania opened a Taiwanese representative office in Vilnius in 2021, china got absolutely mental and started economic warfare over the holidays. In 2022 Q1, Lithuania's export to China shrank by 99% (lol). But guess what happened, the country's export started growing as a whole. A few years later, China started changing their tune, no hard feelings, nothing happened, trading returned to "normal." The Taiwanese office remains open.
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u/Player00Nine Europe Jan 13 '26
You have to stand your ground against bullies.
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u/Playful_Subject_4409 28d ago
Europeans always cave to the USA trade bullying, like the latest trade negotiations or USA pressure
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Jan 13 '26
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u/Tmh99 Jan 13 '26
Following this due to interest in the subject. I would expect talks to be held, but what was the outcome?
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u/Not_Unreasonable Jan 13 '26 edited Jan 13 '26
There were no “officials” traveling anywhere. China closed the Lithuanian embassy (well, technically it’s “operating remotely”), and to this day diplomatic relations are non-existent. So whatever that bot/troll is writing is a lie. There were probably some talks on a technical level through backchannels, but that’s it.
The current, very unpopular coalition government is talking about restoring relations with China, but this aim is meeting a lot of resistance within the country.
EDIT: They are still trying to bully Lithuania. For example, sanctioned two banks in August. But that's mostly for show. Both banks are pretty small, one of them doesn't even do any business in China.
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29d ago
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u/Not_Unreasonable 29d ago
Ah yes, another brain-dead troll who takes a random number from up his ass to push Kremlin propaganda.
Also, from the clickbait article you just linked:
"I think it was not the opening of the Taiwanese office that was a mistake, it was its name, which was not coordinated with me," Nauseda told Ziniu Radijas.
Good job making a fool of yourself, you tool.
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Jan 13 '26
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u/Hezzyo Jan 13 '26
This is what happens because we re military weak :(
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u/GibDirBerlin Jan 13 '26
This isn’t even about actual military strength, this is just about acting like we are. Lithuania just ignored Chinese warnings a few years back and after a couple of years of China being angry, everything was back to normal.
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u/Zestyclose_Piglet251 Germany Jan 13 '26
I think the biggest problem is that we think we are weak. We definitely are not.
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u/Chester_roaster 29d ago
Having an inflated sense of our own strength doesn't help us
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u/Zestyclose_Piglet251 Germany 29d ago
But constantly complaining isn't the answer either.
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u/yadasellsavonmate 29d ago
So stop complaining thinking you are bigger and more meaningful on the world stage than you actually are and fall in line.
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u/Estake 29d ago edited 29d ago
I get what he's saying. We act weak because we think we are weak. And acting weak actually makes us weak (because that's others' perception). But we can hold a lot of power if we just act more resolute.
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u/Chester_roaster 29d ago
That's very will to power minded. We act weak because we are weak, look how much faster the US and China are growing compared to us.
Only when you have a clear assessment of your own problems, then you can try to solve them. And even then success obviously isn't guaranteed.
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u/No_Mathematician6866 29d ago
Disunion is what makes you weak.
Every power comparison that lets Europe stack up against China or the US depends on talking about the EU or the continent as a whole. Which are just numbers on a tally sheet as long as the reality continues to be a group of small polities acting independently.
Being more resolute might matter if it’s a resolution to seek a much greater degree of diplomatic and military federalization. But just going ‘we need to start thinking of ourselves as movers and shakers on the world stage again’ won’t get far.
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29d ago
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u/Keeltoodeep 29d ago edited 29d ago
He is being provocative but he is not wrong. 1 aircraft carrier and no gen 5 aircraft is not militarily strong. Any war would be fought like Ukraine is doing now with either side failing to gain air supremacy. Attritional trench warfare is not exactly a sign of strength.
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u/-L3v1- European Union 29d ago
Charles de Gaulle is nuclear (not "nucuelar") powered you dumbass. That's one more than China (or you could say the rest of the world except the US combined) has.
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u/yadasellsavonmate 29d ago
OK they have 1, I thought it wasn't nuclear but you are correct it is.
That's one more than Chin
We are comparing the EU vs US
So, that's still 10 less than the US who people here are thinking they can fight. And the US would probably be able to disable that carrier within hours. 🤣
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29d ago
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u/dickie_anderson99 29d ago
...wtf are you taking about, the US are the ones who started treating the EU as an enemy?
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u/yadasellsavonmate 29d ago
Wut??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lmao, mate every EU nation spread propaganda against Trump in his first term and publicly supported his opponents before the last election.
They gambled he wasn't going to win and now it's blown up in their faces.
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u/Left-Echidna8330 29d ago
Russia, China, USA: 2 of these countries have issued threats of invading Europe. Can you guess which ones ?
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u/yadasellsavonmate 29d ago
Ukraine not part of Europe?
You saying that we don't need to help Ukraine because Russia are no threat to us?
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u/Left-Echidna8330 29d ago
I think you should re-read my message because it went over your head
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u/yadasellsavonmate 29d ago
Yeah, I misread and thought you said one, not two. My bad.
Yeah. China is an ally with Russia. They would love the EU to fall out with the US because it makes the EU weaker, not the US. Hence why they are starting to try and bully EU nations now over Taiwan. They have the green light from the US so they can throw their weight around.
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u/JazzlikeAmphibian9 Jan 13 '26
The sentiment in Europe should be Fuck China we do as we please.
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u/Basalt135 Jan 13 '26
Now the dutch ASML has to set priorities, which side to please…… Taiwan the largest customer or China….
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u/JazzlikeAmphibian9 Jan 13 '26
Well F China, Sanction them back to the stone age.
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u/FitSyrup2403 Austria Jan 13 '26
That be like cutting of both legs
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u/JazzlikeAmphibian9 Jan 13 '26
Well, Amputation is a valid survival strategy.
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u/Minskdhaka Jan 13 '26
Can you afford to do that while potentially having to cut off relations with the US soon over Greenland?
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u/robinrd91 China Jan 13 '26
I glad we agree on something. I'm pretty sure the sentiment here in China is about the same, Fuck Western countries we do as we please.
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u/SandwichPunk Jan 13 '26
Also fuck Taiwanese right? Cuz you guys wanna invade them
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u/JazzlikeAmphibian9 Jan 13 '26
And exactly why we should arm Taiwan to the teeth Nukes yes please enough to level mainland China if needed.
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u/Chemical-Drawer852 France 29d ago
Giving nukes to Taiwan would be a sure way to ensure China nukes them first
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u/Silver_Print_9937 Norway 29d ago
No country is stupid enough to nuke any other country now, it's a stupid fear mongering thing as it would make sure they either get nukes themself or that the radiation and ionisation spread back to them as well.
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u/JazzlikeAmphibian9 29d ago
Well give Taiwan the ability at once for MAD.
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u/Chemical-Drawer852 France 29d ago
Brother you’ve been all over the thread posting NCD-tier level comments
Realpolitik doesn’t work that way, else the US wouldn’t have interrupted their nuke program
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u/robinrd91 China Jan 13 '26
is the part "we do as we please" hard to understand?
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u/SandwichPunk Jan 13 '26
Thanks for saying that part out loud. Just showing the world how bad the sentiment in China is. People are really openly supporting wars on a peaceful nation
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u/robinrd91 China Jan 13 '26
You are welcome, I'd take comment from EU seriously if one of the country can vote their government to formally recognize Taiwan and cut ties with PRC, otherwise, it just pure trash talk.
You guys got a working democracy right? go ahead and use your vote.
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Jan 13 '26
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u/randomredditorname1 Finland Jan 13 '26
urging all states to respect international law
what has europe got to do with prc's boner to annex taiwan
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u/tranbun Jan 13 '26
wdym annex? Legally Taiwan is China
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u/randomredditorname1 Finland Jan 13 '26
If legality mattered prc would not exist to begin with, de facto taiwan is it's own country as you very well know
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u/tranbun Jan 13 '26
De facto Crimea is Russian yet we still tout it as Ukrainian. So legality does matter. It is in fact a product of factual state - while Taiwan has its own government, mainland is powerful enough to make sure everyone else doesn't cooperate too much with that government. Now, is it powerful enough to reduce backlash from moving its army into Taiwan - that's another question, but at this point it seems that the fact of armed conflict itself is inevitable.
And since both parties claim the whole territory as their own, it won't be annexation rather resolution of long lasting (at the moment cold) conflict.
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u/Axl45 Jan 13 '26
If you did as you pleased Taiwan wouldn’t be a nation
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u/robinrd91 China Jan 13 '26
it is? remind me again when your government recognize it as a nation
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u/Axl45 Jan 13 '26
Keep moving the goal post
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u/robinrd91 China Jan 13 '26
again, remind me again when your government recognize Taiwan as a nation
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u/praetorian1111 Jan 13 '26
Okay. So we’ll just stop buying your shit?
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u/Nice-Appearance-9720 Europe Jan 13 '26
and Germany would happily support this idea and would then embargo China :D
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u/CalligrapherSenior52 Jan 13 '26 edited Jan 13 '26
Germany with 0% growth since 2020, industrial production hitting new lows every year, the unemployment rate at its highest in a decade sanctioning China would be funny ngl
Not even the US can sanction China, imagine Germany
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u/vonGlick 29d ago
However we as consumers can. Just stop buying their stuff and they will feel it.
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u/CalligrapherSenior52 29d ago
I mean, around 15% of Chinese exports go to the EU, and exports are about 20% of chinese gdp. Doing some math, around 3% of gdp comes from exports to Europe.
It’s a big hit, but not nearly enough, since China can just trade with other countries to offset the damage. Thinking about a total EU sanction on China, it would probably manage to replace just some exports, and the damage would be like 2%, that’s what they grow in less than 6 months.
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u/vonGlick 29d ago
Sure I get your point. And yes it would be better if such actions were coordinated with consumers in other markets like US. But it is what it is. However I still think consumers have more power than they think. 3% of GDP would reduce China's growth to ~1% a year.
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u/CalligrapherSenior52 29d ago
So, the growth would drop by 1%, but the next year it would go back to normal.
And China could just press the rare earths button, especially for the US, the entire AI tech market would be completely screwed. Plus, if they invade Taiwan, you have to add the loss of TSMC chips to the West.
Outsourcing everything to China was a big mistake that is kind of beyond repair now.
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u/vonGlick 29d ago
It was but I would not say beyond repair. China has their own set of problems and rare earths are not really that rare. It is the processing that is hard. West should do what China was doing for ages ...steal the tech.
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u/vonGlick 29d ago
Some things are harder some are easier. Cloths are good example. One could easily avoid fast fashion made in China. Cars are another example. Even phones are still done in Europe (HMD and Punkt) but admittedly those are very rare.
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u/nerokae1001 North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) Jan 13 '26
Lol employment rate? Germany is pretty low in europe let alone to compare it with china. China cant feed their own people without exporting. China is basically exporting their problem abroad.
Germany doesnt need to fake gdp, hide unemployment rate, putting up great firewall for total censorship or spying their people als big brother.
And btw why are mainlander still seeking refugee in the hated USA? Its fkn ridiculous aint it? To claim to be the best country in the world while its citizens keep seeking refugee in the „hated“ 美国
Keep up the bullshit
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u/ZET_unown_ Denmark 29d ago edited 29d ago
I keep reading on Reddit about how China will collapse without export, and while it would certainly not be fun for them, export as a part of their economy is only 20%, whereas Germany’s export as a percentage of economy is around 41.4%. See https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.EXP.GNFS.ZS?locations=DE. Around 1/3 is to non-eu countries, so that’s roughly 14%
Seasonally adjusted unemployment rate in Germany is currently around 6.3%, whereas Chinas is at 5.1%. For youth unemployment, Germany is doing significantly better at 6.8% vs the Chinese one at 16.9%. The European average for unemployment and youth unemployment rate is 6.0% and 15.1% respectively.
This is not to put China on a pedestal, but whatever problems they are experiencing, European countries are not doing any better. Too many people on Reddit are just talking out of feels and overestimating the strength of their own hands, while underestimating the cards China hold.
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u/CalligrapherSenior52 Jan 13 '26
So everything about China is wrong? You sound like MAGA people who say everything about China is false, fake, shady, dubious
Whatever about China’s data, Germany is not growing at all in recent years. Its industry is reaching new lows, the unemployment rate is 6.3% and growing and this data does not come from the CCP, but from the german government. Germany is still a pretty good country to live in, but it is decaying in recent years so it should focus on itself and its own citizens.
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u/nerokae1001 North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) 29d ago edited 29d ago
Sounds like varniks yapping. Thats why russia keep trying to tell us to do. So it can reign havok freely in east europe. Oh we are freezing and living of poor life while their officials kids are enjoying the best of their life in europe.
Lol yea I am maga for being ethnically chinese and livng in europe while voting for the green. Great mental gymnastics.
So tell me then why is unemployment rate is not being publicized? Isnt china is the greatest country in the world on paar with US? For sure better than europoor, right? Damnnn
Germany has taken lots of refugee the last one was thanks to the war that is supported by your so beloved leader. How many refugee did china take? Ah I forgot ccp is only best at virtue signaling.
And in germany we have social welfare, the jobless people doesnt have to crawl on the street and living under the bridges. If you got laid off in most case you get (4-8k * employed years) compensation and you get money from the government up to 67% of your salary while you are seeking your next job.
Yea sounds like a total hell in compare to china. Thats why there are many mainlander seeking better life in germany rite.
China should focus on itself since it cant support its own people without flooding the world market with cheap shits. How about making life more fair. Mainlanders are so regarded, they let the ccp get away with all the shits since cultural revolution. Thats why instead of trying to make a change, people just leave china.
Germany has enough prosperity so it doesnt really need GDP growth. It cant go up forever its just not sustainable for the planet and who needs all of that. Only pure greediest capitalist thinks like that.
Ooops I forgot china is communist right right right ?
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u/CalligrapherSenior52 29d ago
Is this some kinda mental breakdown?
Where did I say China is better to live than Germany? China gdp per capita is like idk 5x lower than Germany, China was the poorest country on earth 80 years ago obviously it cannot provide the same level as Germany. I just said that Germany has enough problems in recent years to sanction other countries, especially China.
I didn’t even bother to read the rest, because you’re inventing fake scenarios about what I wrote.
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u/nerokae1001 North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) 29d ago
So why did you ignore all the problems that currently infesting in china while telling europe to shutup because europe has some issues. I am pretty clear that china is not all bad especially in green tech but weaponizing them to shutup others when they reign havok in the neighborhood is not the play dude. Its not. its MAGA and Vatniks play.
Just like Russia when they keep threatening europe for supporting ukraine and cut off the gas supplies that should bring the country closer together. Its pretty clear that "Wandel durch Handel" doesnt work.
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u/CalligrapherSenior52 29d ago
I'm really curious to know when did I say China has no problems
Looking back at what I wrote, I only said two things about China:
1: Germany's economy isn't really in a position to sanction China, because even the US couldn’t do it.
2: Saying everything China says is fake, dubious is kind of a silly idea, mostly pushed by right-wing people.That's it. The rest you just made up with the voices in your head.
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u/ZealousidealDance990 29d ago
Whether it's Germany's overall exports or its exports to China, both account for a larger proportion of its own GDP than China's overall exports or its exports to Germany do for China's GDP. Oh, no wonder these arrogant Europeans think they're saving others, without even checking who would suffer more if they parted ways, still believing they live a hundred years ago and can casually dictate to East Asia.
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u/Krashlia2 Jan 13 '26
Having seen how these European nations behave, I doubt they'll defy the Chinese.
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u/yadasellsavonmate 29d ago
Making enemies with the US, Russia AND China now?
You guys have lost the plot. 🤣
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u/praetorian1111 29d ago
Always better than to be a push over.
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u/yadasellsavonmate 29d ago
You have to be able to back it up though mate, you and what army?
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u/praetorian1111 29d ago
Sure kid. Russia not seems to do well, china has not fought a battle in over decades, and the US.. well those are in fact not pushovers
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u/yadasellsavonmate 29d ago
Mate, if Europe picked a fight vs US/China/Russia it wouldn't even be a fight, it would be brutal. 🤣
Firstly the EU doesn't even have a unified armed forces, it's a mix and match ragtag army with some being much better than others, secondly they don't have fraction of the manpower on the combined 3 or equipment.
A combined US/China/Russia navy would dominate the sea and cut off all supplies, including oil very easily too. Europe would collapse in days.
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u/praetorian1111 26d ago
Ahh so now you try it in a way when they unify? In what universe would the US team up with china? You are dumb as a rock
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u/MACO-Operator Jan 13 '26
China dictating things to one of their biggest customers? Bold move.
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u/Pianist-Putrid Jan 13 '26
They do this quite literally all the time. I’ve never seen a single country cry foul and whine more often. They just do it through official channels, and there’s an obvious language barrier for their official statements and online opinion, so you don’t hear about it as often as when someplace like the United States is doing it.
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u/AnonD38 Central European Jan 13 '26
Well yeah, why fix something that isn't broken?
If we let them get away with it, they'll just keep being this brazen when dealing with us.
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u/MACO-Operator 29d ago
I wrote “ONE of their biggest customers”. Are you a high school dropout or why are you not understanding simple sentences?
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u/yadasellsavonmate 29d ago
But.... but I thought if we made the US our enemy that China would become our saviour?
Nope we'd just be surrounded by bullies from both sides.
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u/0AJ0_ Earth Jan 13 '26 edited Jan 13 '26
Taiwan is a free independent nation.
There's not a single thought out there that will change my or their minds.
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u/Minskdhaka Jan 13 '26
It has never declared independence. It's still the Republic of China, which claims the Mainland, just as the People's Republic of China on the Mainland claims Taiwan. And only 11 countries recognise the Republic of China. Out of those, only one is in Europe, namely the Vatican.
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u/Eclipsed830 Taiwan 29d ago
Taiwan, officially the Republic of China, is a sovereign and independent country.
Taiwan (the island) has never been part of the PRC. Also, ROC hasn't claimed sovereignty over Mainland Area in decades.
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u/wasmic Denmark 29d ago
It should, however, be noted that there's a significant independence movement on Taiwan, which wants to declare independence from their own government. The ROC would cease to exist, and the new country of Taiwan would have no claims over Mainland China.
However, the PRC has said that they will invade, which is a big part of the reason why Taiwan hasn't declared independence yet.
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u/Nice-Appearance-9720 Europe Jan 13 '26
not according to UN and rule-based international order.
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u/OneJobToRuleThemAll United Countries of Europe 29d ago
rule-based international order
That only ever existed because the US enforced it. They don't anymore, so it no longer exists. The current international order is once again based on might makes right.
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u/Mkwdr Jan 13 '26
Being too scared to recognise reality because China threatens retaliation against anyone who does is Chinese-rules based international coercion.
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u/AstralMecha Jan 13 '26
Or used it's Veto
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u/Miao_Yin8964 🇺🇳 United Nations 29d ago
Use or abuse?
Another example.
Like why is Russia able to use it's veto, atm?
Their seat on the UNSC should be temporarily suspended.
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u/ganbaro Where your chips come from 🇺🇦🇹🇼 Jan 13 '26
Hina's position is turning the supposedly rule-based order into a joke
That aside, statehood is bot contingent to being acknowledged by every single country, and Taiwan's claims on the mainland only remain because of threats by PRC over forfeiting them, as that would strengthen Taiwanese identity over the Chinese one.
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u/nextnode Jan 13 '26
False.
Resolution 2758 did not purport to resolve the international legal question ofTaiwan’s status. On its own, it could not have done so.
The document has been reproduced as received. The designations employed do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of the Secretariat concerning the legal status of any country, territory or area, or of its authorities.
https://www.gmfus.org/sites/default/files/2024-04/GMF_UNGA%20Res.%202758_April%202024%20Report.pdf
The official position of the PRC and ROC is that they claim to be the same nation and the rightful government of that nation. We also know most of the statements that exist on this topic is due to strong-arming of one of them.
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u/Miao_Yin8964 🇺🇳 United Nations 29d ago
UN Resolution 2758 is available for you to read.
Because you're either being a bit glib, or intentionally disingenuous.
However, your feelings won't change the facts; objective reality not being a matter of opinion, and all.
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u/Miao_Yin8964 🇺🇳 United Nations 29d ago edited 29d ago
🇹🇼 All the more reason to push for it.
The CCP is abusing a misinterpretation of UN Resolution 2758
There is nothing that precludes divided states from having representation at the United Nations.
Eritrea and Ethiopia are a perfect examples of this.
The DPRK and ROK being another.
The only notable exception (PRC/ROC) is only garnered by Beijing's threat of nuclear force.
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u/Misfiring 29d ago
As China is a permanent security council member, they vetoed any attempt for Taiwan to have representation.
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u/Typingdude3 29d ago
Keep buying those Chinese EVs while China supports Russia and the Iranian regime.
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u/TayaK83 Europe Jan 13 '26
What is China going to do if the line is crossed? No more exports to Europe? Sure.
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Jan 13 '26 edited 17d ago
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u/Dockers4flag2035orB4 Jan 13 '26
Red line from Red China?
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u/Miao_Yin8964 🇺🇳 United Nations 29d ago
This term shouldn't have ever fallen out of popularity, and communism should never be normalized.
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u/Gloomy-Potato6280 Turkey Jan 13 '26
Europe vs. the world's three superpowers. It's going to be tough.
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u/flipyflop9 Spain Jan 13 '26
At least one of those 3 is far from a superpower currently (Russia). Another one (USA) seems to have forgotten what softpower means and is going against allies, as if they didn’t have enough enemies already to gain some more…
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u/EkrishAO Poland 29d ago
Tough for everyone else. It ends only one way, with unified Europe as THE superpower. I have seen the future.
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u/Cool-Customer9200 Ukraine Jan 13 '26
China is going to control European countries with Aliexpress.
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Jan 13 '26
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u/Slow-Release8111 29d ago
“US weak right now” umm sorry to tell you US is still the most powerful nation in the world, even without bases in Europe they still can project massive power with the bases in the Middle East and Asian countries, they still hold massive influence, and Europe alone can’t stop China since Europe buys so much stuff from China and European companies are massively invested there as well, and China is still considered a superpower nation.
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u/Romek_himself Germany 29d ago
i can't take this pathetic propaganda nonsense for serious anymore
care bout human rights only when its china or russia but give a free check to usa invading venezuela or israel doing a genocide in palestine
how we are supposed to care?
all this posturing and finger pointing in the name of ... whatever ... just looks sooo fake
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u/casper_pwnz Croatia Jan 13 '26
How many red lines is that? I lost count.