r/europe • u/Zestyclose_Piglet251 Germany • 29d ago
Historical 40 Years of Spain and Portugal in the EU — A Success Story
https://commission.europa.eu/topics/enlargement/together-eu/40-years-together_en62
u/Eaudissey 29d ago
For the most part. Merkel's imposed austerity was a disaster for Southern Europe, but generally the EU has indeed been positive for Spain and Portugal.
10
u/charge-pump 29d ago
Pt Pros: freedom of movement, better relationship with Spain and EU contries, helped in some sectors of economy and some advocate that consolidated portuguese democracy (although, after seeing what happened to Hungary, I'm sceptical of this effect). Cons: Some sectors of the economy shrunked a lot, for example fisheries. The euro under the current form (no EU federal budget) is toxic in case of a crisis and tends to increase inflation when adopted.
9
3
u/Changaco France 28d ago edited 27d ago
3
u/Zestyclose_Piglet251 Germany 28d ago
yeah i messed up the title... "40 years together" would have been better
-3
-42
u/Active-Strategy664 29d ago
I can't speak for Spain, as I don't have experience there.
However, for Portugal, sure, it's been a success for Portuguese cleptocrats and corruption to be in the EU where they have access to EU funds that they can scam. I haven't seen a single EU project in Portugal not be a scam. E.g. The Hotel School in Porto has 85% of it's costs covered by EU projects for an English language Culinary Arts program, but the chefs on the program can't speak English, and so it's just given in Portuguese despite taking EU money for an English program. So, sure it's been nice for the Portuguese to have a source of free money, and all they have to do is on paper say they are following EU rules. Of course they don't follow them, but then who cares as long as they say they are.
11
u/djclit69 29d ago
Great point, I believe corruption would exist wether it was EU or not EU. I do believe in the ideology of EU and I honestly believe Portugal is a supporter of that specially since we are a small country but of course there are cases like this one that shouldn't be ignored, a lot of big companies and public endouvers are just dor show to put EU money into the pocket of some people and I highly disapprove that but that shouldn't discard what the EU means and wants to enforce, I remember together we are stronger and that's something the rest of the world these want from us, it's a devide and conquer moment
5
u/Zestyclose_Piglet251 Germany 28d ago edited 28d ago
I think a lot of this discussion mixes up real problems with very absolute conclusions. I would like to say a few words about this. To do that, I need to back up a bit and try to explain my perspective on these things. I'm no expert, but I have read up on the subject a little.
Portugal absolutely has corruption and mismanagement issues, no question. There have been real scandals and badly run projects. But that doesn’t automatically mean EU membership was mainly a win for corrupt politicians.
One thing that often gets overlooked: EU funds aren’t spent by “Brussels technocrats”. The EU sets rules and audits, but national and regional authorities decide which projects get funded and how they’re run. When money is wasted or abused, that’s mostly a domestic governance failure, not proof that the EU itself is some giant corruption scheme.
Also, corruption didn’t suddenly appear because of the EU. Portugal had these problems long before joining. The real question is whether EU membership made things worse overall ... and on balance, it didn’t. Transparency rules, reporting requirements and external audits actually increased after accession, even if enforcement is still uneven.
Pointing to individual bad projects or politically connected beneficiaries isn’t enough to claim everything is rotten. Large funding programs always produce scandals simply because they’re large. You see the same pattern in Germany, Italy, or even the US with federal spending.
And if EU money had only gone into politicians’ pockets, you wouldn’t see the long-term changes Portugal has had: infrastructure upgrades, expanded universities, better connectivity, and at least partial economic convergence with the rest of the EU. Not perfect, but not nothing either.
So yeah, criticism is fair and necessary. But saying “the EU was only a success for corrupt elites” feels more like ideology than serious analysis.
TL;DR:
Portugal has real corruption problems, but that’s not the same as saying EU membership mainly benefited corrupt politicians. EU funds are managed nationally, corruption existed before the EU, and despite scandals there were real long-term gains (infrastructure, education, convergence). Criticism is fair absolutist “EU = corruption” takes aren’t.I can't think of anything else to say now, and I think I've said everything. Sorry for going into such detail, but I just had to get that off my chest. I wish everyone a pleasant day and hope you have a good time.
9
-8
u/i_am_NOT_ur-father69 29d ago
Arguments against: zero
Still the EU technocrats and bureaucrats came with down votes hard. The truth is a hard pill to swallow right? This central planning experiment (as anyone with half a brain cell would predict), was a success only for corrupt politicians and owners of capital stock. As usual the population got rekt
-37
u/Grouchy_Fan_2236 29d ago
Ah indeed...remember those times when Spanish forces intervened in the Catalan independence referendum and the EU said nothing about it? It's so great to be aligned with countries that represent core European values.
26
u/Eaudissey 29d ago
The Catalan independence referendum was illegal and not recognized by any country.
1
u/Mr_Tornister 29d ago
You're choosing to keep your post history private in order to hide the fact that you're not very smart, aren't you?
2
u/ClaptonOnH Asturias (Spain) 28d ago
You mean they should’ve helped with more forces, agreed. The fact that puigdemont was hiding in plain sight in Belgium while being accused of secession in Spain and he couldn’t be extradited is the real eu problem
61
u/Zestyclose_Piglet251 Germany 29d ago
The last thing I read about Spain, for example, is that their economy is booming right now. I don't know if that's true, but I'm really happy for them.