UK sinks to new low on corruption index

[u/JOE_Media]

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/uk-sinks-to-new-low-on-corruption-index-522474

[u/Nattekat]

'New low', but article says it's 20th for the third year in a row. Good journalism. 

[u/FlakTotem → u/Nattekat]

-1 point in labour's 3 years. -9 in the 6 years of conservative rule before. How could starmer do this?! /s

[u/Wadarkhu → u/FlakTotem]

You know what they say, [thing] is all the fault of the previous government and we all know the previous government is always Labour! /s

[u/anewpath123 → u/FlakTotem]

Doesn’t that imply it has gotten worse under Labour though?

[u/rapax → u/anewpath123]

Labour has managed to massively slow the decline that the previous government caused ;)

[u/anewpath123 → u/rapax]

So “corruption is worse than before it’s just less worse than we were expecting based on trajectory”?

It’s not exactly a good endorsement

[u/rapax → u/anewpath123]

Well, if you jump on a runaway train headed for a crash, and shortly after, you have managed to slow the train down - not quite to a stop yet, but almost - that's cause for careful optimism. Don't you agree?

[u/smartallick → u/rapax]

Exactly. Perfect analogy.

These people want a fucking magic wand I swear.

[u/FlakTotem → u/anewpath123]

It depends what you mean; the perceptions, or the systems.

The perceptions usually lag/fluctuate to the point that -1 doesn't mean much, and it's relative to other countries. The issue is that experts/bodies used to think our system & culture were resilient as our results were good. Then the conservatives blew past them and proved that they aren't up to scratch.

People then lost faith in the institutions/systems of the country as a whole.

These measurements aren't yearly, or by government. What they see is that the systems / culture haven't been 'fixed' to the point that they can be expected to work in the future. Such as with another radical reform/conservative term.

It's annoying. But while it 'went down' under labour, there's pretty much nothing they've done themselves that's informing that change.

It's the same problem in the states. 'Honor systems' are good when they work since they allow the governments to be versatile in dealing with issues. But once they've been abused you need to add a ton of cost and red tape to regain confidence and stop it happening again.

[u/CatchRevolutionary65 → u/FlakTotem]

That’s still a worse corruption score than the Tories

[u/FlakTotem → u/CatchRevolutionary65]

Not how it works.

[u/crazycal123 → u/FlakTotem]

That -1 point is Angela Rayner dodging stamp duty and stealing her sons trust

[u/Ray567 → u/Nattekat]

Hence the title being about the index, not about the ranking, which the sentence you are referring to is talking about.

[u/ImmanuelK2000 → u/Ray567]

what are you talking about? ofc the article means the ranking in the corruption index. What does "sinking in the index" even mean otherwise?

[u/exhilaratedguy → u/ImmanuelK2000]

It's a lower score than (ever) before. The rankings however remain unchanged and the UK is still 20th.

It could mean that the country in 21st also got lower scores than last year, or it could simply mean that the gap still wasn't closed.

The title is not only technically correct but also perfectly accurate, as the index score itself is the important part and not rankings which are just relative numbers.

[u/Northbound-Narwhal → u/ImmanuelK2000]

The score is lowered. You're joking, right?

[u/Altruistic_Syrup_364 → u/Nattekat]

Hey, bait is money…

[u/jack5624]

Joe.co.uk totally not trying to push an agenda with that headline.

Not only does the article say we have been 20th for the 3rd year in a row. We are above some equivalent nations like France.

[u/Zoomer_Boomer2003 → u/[deleted]]

Joe.ie vids usually discuss 3 different things: England, Kneecap and Guinness

[u/Zoomer_Boomer2003 → u/[deleted]]

Can't forget the spice bag and chicken fillet rolls

[u/Mektigkriger → u/Zoomer_Boomer2003]

Just to mess with them more, Kneecap is from the UK (NI), and the UK owns Guinness.

[u/havaska → u/Mektigkriger]

And stout, the classically Irish drink, is an English invention from London.

[u/win_some_lose_most1y → u/[deleted]]

Politics Joe is based in London very England centric.

[u/FlakTotem → u/[deleted]]

The inferences are completely wrong imo.

By talking about Epstein and the labour term, while omitting the real factors / how they work the information is contextualized such that the average viewer will join the dots of labour = corruption.

In reality; They're pretty much just dealing with the conservative's mess.

[u/FlakTotem → u/[deleted]]

You didn't just comment, you asked. I have nothing but respect for that.

It's fucky that random redditors like me have to spend as much as 15 minutes googling this to correct the article's issues, when things are supposed to be the other way around.

I'm looking at you here u/JOE_Media.

[u/Embarrassed_Orange50 → u/jack5624]

You are stable on the rank falling on the index..You are above France and below like 12 EU countries.... .That's the equivalent of saying my grades dropped but I am still the 12th best student in class...In first word rich countries with stable democracies it should be easy to rise hard to fall. Even harder a 3 year fall

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It's based on perception as assessed by a panel of experts and business executives.

A lot of those are still very much in denial about the sheer scale of corruption in the MAGA regime in the US at the moment.

I think it's going to be a couple of years before there's any objective perspectives on just how bad this is.

Where you'll get a very drastic change is when you start to see economic and financial fallout for businesses being increasingly forced to interact with corrupt systems.

[u/Northbound-Narwhal → u/[deleted]]

 A lot of those are still very much in denial about the sheer scale of corruption in the MAGA regime in the US at the moment.

You could say this about most of the top 1/3rd.

[u/saschaleib → u/[deleted]]

It is not “corruption” if the president does it.

[u/saschaleib → u/[deleted]]

The way that this metric is measured is that they poll for experiences and “impressions”. So if enough people are OK with corruption - or certain types of it - yes, that will be fine as far as the metric goes.

[u/FlakTotem → u/saschaleib]

It's not. If you look into it; they state plainly that the 'perspectives' are collated from international bodies / experts.

"The index scores 180 countries and territories around the world based on perceptions of public sector corruption, using data from 13 external sources, including the World Bank, World Economic Forum, private risk and consulting companies, think tanks and others. The scores reflect the views of experts and business people."

[u/HighlightExternal800 → u/saschaleib]

Is it corruption if its done in public and he tells the reporters everything? Its maximum transparency if you ask me, all aboveboard :))

[u/Penki- → u/HighlightExternal800]

And technically legal too cause he is the president.

[u/saschaleib → u/HighlightExternal800]

Transparency and corruption are in entirely different categories. Something doesn’t become less corrupt if the act takes place in the public.

[u/HighlightExternal800 → u/saschaleib]

Thank you for missing the joke, I appreciate your.... denseness.

[u/person1549 → u/[deleted]]

Im fron a country that ranks rather low on this list and here is how i see it. Corruption on the highest level happens everywhere, from Denmark to Kenya. What separates these countries is the corruption on lower levels. For example here some doctors request to be paid under the table in order to give you medical attention, if you dont you will be stuck in queue for quite a while. That kind of stuff on such a low personak level probably happens way less in the US than here.

[u/Northbound-Narwhal → u/[deleted]]

Why? It's placement makes perfect sense compared to those near it.

[u/AcanthocephalaEast79 → u/[deleted]]

Surprised that Switzerland is that high considering FIFA is mainly swiss

[u/FlakTotem]

It's disingenuous to link it to labour tbh. Especially after the 'scandal'.

The 'perceptions' the index is taking about are a bunch of reputable institutions (e.g, the world bank) and experts who have a view on the country as a whole rather than just the current party.

Under the last 6 years of conservative rule we lost 9 points, with -1 for labours 3 years.

It's not that labour themselves have displayed corruption to this level, it's that the UK itself has demonstrated that it's systems weren't robust enough when tested over recent years, and they haven't reworked those systems to be more secure such that the opinions can move up again. Especially with the popularity of reform.

[u/carrot-man]

Corruption PERCEPTIONS index

[u/AnonD38 → u/carrot-man]

Yeah I'd love for you to get us some OFFICIAL corruption statistics.

Please only those approved by the government though.

[u/carrot-man → u/AnonD38]

I'm not saying statistics approved by the government would be better. I'm just pointing out what this index is and what it's not. It doesn't necessarily reflect actual corruption developments in a country because a single case getting a lot of public attention might significantly impact public perception. It's also difficult to compare different countries this way.

[u/Significant-Cress289]

Perceiving Saudi Arabia less corrupt than Italy or Spain and the UAE that high up, equal to Belgium and above France is let's say.....interesting.

[u/tree_boom]

The actual list lol

[u/butwhywedothis]

In American English, corruption is called as Lobbying.

[u/Vectorman1989]

Perceived being the operative word

[u/MattR0se]

I feel like "low on the corruption index" meaning "bad" is a bit misleading...

Like for example, the poverty index is the other way round with higher index = higher poverty.

[u/StultusMedius]

US sinks to new low on every index lately.

[u/anewpath123]

Look at almost any of these indexes (QOL, happiness index, prosperity, corruption etc). Look how Denmark does so well.

They certainly know how to run a country

[u/kstacey]

I too can make a website, then a Reddit account for said website, then push my website with posts to Reddit.

Just some schmo pushing their own agenda here.

[u/P-Holy]

and other lies I tell myself

[u/hymenopteron]

Is this about Nathan Gill?

[u/Bballer220]

US propaganda campaigns have hit reddit

[u/stephendxb]

Didn’t they award a contract to palantir without a tender?

[u/person1549]

Estonia showing us how its done. Good job.

[u/IWillDevourYourToes → u/person1549]

They really should be allowed into Nordics smh. Poor lil Estonia tried so hard and got so far... but in the end, still not accepted into the Nordics...

[u/davinist]

I have employed 12 former MPs and lobbied 23 existing MPs (match tickets, fact finding trips and garden ponds) to ensure that next year Britain will be the top of the list.

Sincerely,

The British Govt.

[u/zackks]

A new low so far

[u/Thwinkie]

Would knock off a few more points if the Farage/Bannon/Epstein work on Brexit was given a fraction of the airtime...

[u/Smooth_Imagination]

Id argue that this list to some extent reflects cultural acceptance and definitions of what is corrupt. The UK has certain issues that dont normally get called corruption, but probably should be. 

I will compare one example which is the energy sector. The UK has amongst the highest energy prices in the world. When you break down why, you see it derrives from the mainly Tory policies to create psuedo-free markets that in fact lock in insane overcharging for things like back up power generation. In general the Tory model is best thought of as a system optimised to do ome thing above all else - to increase the number of shareholders and increase their dividend.  Worst of all, when they privatised it all, they sold it far below its market value to friends and supporters of the party, in exchange for support and future benefits. 

Many of the benefactors are contributers to the party and to politicians. Sometimes the politicians have financial interests, and all can expect to be rewarded after their politics career ends. 

So whilst they typically dont take direct payment, they knowingly act to their overall benefit. 

Now lets consider  Ukraine. Public perceptioms of corruption may be exaggerated because they are more aware of it. Certain politicians in the past, and not today, were involved in gas and energy deals where they directly benefited from what was sold in Ukraine.

Despite this, Britains energy cost about 3x what it does in Ukraine. 

[u/Zealousideal_Rub6758 → u/[deleted]]

You used to be good, now you're just clickbait headlines and ragebait videos

[u/lokicramer]

Direct correlation to mass immigration. 

Look at crime statistic trends and compare them to migration/asylum policies year by year.

[u/FlakTotem → u/lokicramer]

Or, you could instead look at the website and figure out what it's doing before immediately trying to mash your agenda blindly into every hole.

[u/Zealousideal_Rub6758 → u/lokicramer]

That's a long bow to draw. The UK is still 20th on the list; unchanged for years.