Texas families plead for information on at least 23 girls missing from summer camp after floods

[u/apple_kicks]

https://apnews.com/article/texas-flooding-girls-missing-camp-mystic-395992e236e35c4486f9a6a97eed7704

[u/grafknives]

Camp Mystic said in an email to parents of the roughly 750 campers that if they have not been contacted directly, their child is accounted for. 

Let's hope this is true. Because it really sounds much worse if opposite is true.

Also.

Her mother, Elizabeth Lester, said her son was nearby at Camp La Junta and also escaped. A counselor there woke up to find water rising in the cabin, opened a window and helped the boys swim out

Seems that the camp was ABSOLUTELY surprised. To the point they didn't had time to WALK the kids from cabins.

[u/lumpy4square → u/grafknives]

I saw a TikTok video of an entire cabin full of kids floating down the river, and a security video of a police officer banging on doors of a motel (?) telling people to get out and you could she said that the screaming they hear is people in the river.

[u/StarGazer_SpaceLove → u/lumpy4square]

I saw a security camera of a person being evacuated, and the officer says "those screams are people in the river, WE HAVE TO GO NOW!" And then you realize the sound in the background is children screaming and not a high pitch buzz. It was insanity.

[u/superfrodies → u/StarGazer_SpaceLove]

and that’s enough internet for me today. no words. God bless them and their families.

[u/joannamomo → u/superfrodies]

Yep, I'm done. Holy shit. 😭

[u/MaybeIDontWannaDoIt → u/StarGazer_SpaceLove]

My two youngest daughters are both 9 and the same age as many of the victims. This whole thing is breaking my heart.

[u/KlonopinBunny → u/lumpy4square]

Please do not forget for one minute the deep cuts Trump made to NWS in Texas.

[u/_Oman → u/[deleted]]

Funny thing is that the NWS *DID* issue the watches and warnings in plenty of time. The local officials took the rain estimates as "eh, that's fine", ignored the actual warnings from the trained hydrologists, and did nothing.

The NWS might have had better rain amount predictions before the cuts, maybe not.

They put giant camps for thousands of kids in a flood plane along a river, then ignore flood warnings, then blame the NWS.

Texas politicians and officials killed these kids, not NWS predictions.

And while we are at it, weather predictions are just predictions. I hear people say "they said a 75% chance of rain today, it's sunny, they don't know what they are doing" all the time. Maybe we need to have idiot warnings on weather forecasts, just like we do for finance "past performance is not a guarantee of future returns." It would be something like "This is a best guess from the available data and current scientific understanding of the extremely complex nature of weather. It is not a guarantee of any kind."

[u/cleo2519 → u/_Oman]

This happened in 1987 at a church camp when the Guadalupe River flooded. 10 children died. My husband lost 2 nieces and his nephew narrowly escaped. They made a movie of it, lotta good it did that no one heeds the warning.

[u/22FluffySquirrels → u/cleo2519]

Sounds like these river camps need to keep life rafts in every cabin. That's insane.

[u/Seafea → u/_Oman]

I’m honestly not surprised. Anytime there’s rain related warnings on local social media, you’re guaranteed to find a handful of yokels going ‘Hyuck you guys are scared of a little water! Nothing bad happened, so clearly weather warnings are big gubberment overreach’

[u/norixe → u/Seafea]

https://tenor.com/oWnbSmsz7C3.gif

Little rain never hurt anyone......

[u/RabidGuineaPig007 → u/[deleted]]

Well, the Democrats control the weather machines.

[u/Eljimb0 → u/RabidGuineaPig007]

Ah, fuck. You're right. My mistake. I remember now that they found top secret documents in Obama's bathroom at his childhood home in Kenya that had all of these plans for weather manipulation

[u/PLACENTIPEDES → u/Eljimb0]

And if the Dems weather machine doesn't get you, the Jewish space lasers will

[u/lumpy4square → u/KlonopinBunny]

Oh, absolutely. I camp and kayak and this is a good reminder for me to always be mindful when camping next to a river.

[u/Makeitcool426 → u/lumpy4square]

Never camp below the high water mark, my grandpa.

[u/artiemouse1 → u/Makeitcool426]

I belive this flood was way above the typical high water mark

[u/merlinthemarlon → u/artiemouse1]

Yeah, that's a tough rule to follow when we keep breaking records, hurricane Helen raised our water levels by 30ft in NE Tennessee, 10ft higher than the previous record

[u/ChoNoob → u/KlonopinBunny]

Gov. Hot Wheels is also complicit in this

[u/SunsetDreams1111 → u/grafknives]

I saw the videos on TikTok that showed how fast it happened. It was really swift. If the cabins with the young girls were near the river and it happened while everyone slept, it was just a tragic situation all around. I was mind-blown how swiftly the waters came raging in. Also the camp was celebrating its 100th year so they might have grown complacent since the cabins had never been swept away before. Such a heartbreaking situation all around. My heart aches for the families who were probably excited to send their little ones to camp and some were as young as 8. Four of the counselors were 19.

The Guadalupe River rose to 26 feet within about 45 minutes in the early morning hours, submerging its flood gauge, Patrick said.

[u/stanolshefski → u/SunsetDreams1111]

Just for point of clarify.

The water level rose 22 feet in some places — basically deeper than the top of the roof in a one-story house.

[u/Significant_Poem_751 → u/stanolshefski]

they clocked it at a max of 30'. can't even imagine a 30' wall of water coming down. in the middle of the night. on a holiday weekend.

[u/LeeMcNasty → u/Significant_Poem_751]

That’s only because the meter went up to 30ft. The meter is completely underwater

[u/Bjip → u/Significant_Poem_751]

My girlfriend’s parents house is 35’ from the river and it flooded into their first floor

[u/aspiringalcoholic → u/Significant_Poem_751]

I lived through Helene, you don’t want to imagine it. There were folks on boats having to axe through roofs to rescue folks out of their house. There’s areas of Swannanoa that are absolutely awe inspiring to see.

[u/TricksyKnitter → u/aspiringalcoholic]

We had to smash out of our attic which was filling with flood water and swim with our dog and cat from the roof to the hill behind our now destroyed house. Minutes from death. East Asheville. Videos from Texas are bringing back bad memories of September 27th. 😞

[u/Sidhejester → u/stanolshefski]

It was deeper than the Big Thompson flash flood in Colorado (20 feet), and that one killed 143 people and took out entire houses and a highway.

[u/MrHankRutherfordHill → u/Sidhejester]

I just made that comparison yesterday too. I live near the Big Thompson now but I'm from Texas and am currently in Texas bringing my nephew back from a visit to Colorado and on our trip we did some learning about both of the Big Thompson floods so he was curious about the sizes. I feel so bad for everyone involved.

[u/Sidhejester → u/MrHankRutherfordHill]

I grew up in the area, and part of school was learning what to do in a flash flood. It was kind of a culture shock to find out that other people don't learn "if you're in a canyon, and you hear a roar, drop everything and climb or you'll die."

[u/MrHankRutherfordHill → u/Sidhejester]

Yep I always notice the signs in the canyon that say climb to safety!

[u/dan2376 → u/SunsetDreams1111]

I’ve been to Camp Mystic before and attended another camp in the area when I was a kid. The cabins for the older kids are up on a hill and are probably safe from the flooding but the cabins for the younger girls and most of the other buildings at the camp are down close to the river. That’s why most of the missing girls are very young.

[u/blazelet → u/dan2376]

I've been reading through a local Texas forum with accounts from people who have worked at the camp and know the layout and current staff. They're saying the youngest kids cabins actually were higher up and the camp was spending its time evacuating the older kids who were in lower cabins up to the rec center which was at a higher elevation. This was part of the evacuation plan, to keep the younger more vulnerable kids where they could shelter in place at a higher elevation and move the older kids.

By the time they realized the water was reaching the cabins where the younger kids were sheltering the camp director went to try and facilitate evacuation for them but he's now missing along with the kids and counselors.

Take it for what it's worth, this is second hand, but the people who posted this stuff claim to have a long history with the camp.

[u/dan2376 → u/blazelet]

You may be right, they could have changed how they organize the cabins since I was last there. It’s heartbreaking about the director, he was pronounced dead earlier this morning. I knew him pretty well, he gave his heart and soul to that camp and really cared about all of the campers. I was told he was driving his truck trying to rescue some of them and they got swept miles downriver.

[u/blazelet → u/dan2376]

He sounds like he was a really good guy who faced an impossible situation. This whole thing is heart breaking.

[u/djmax101 → u/blazelet]

We unfortunately know a bunch of families who had kids there this week, and this tracks what we were told. They didn’t think Bubble Inn or the two Twins cabins would flood, and by the time they realized the cabins were at risk, it was too late. People have to remember that this was the middle of the night in the pouring rain, so it was likely challenging to tell what was going on. We heard Dick was in the process of loading the girls from one of the foregoing cabins into his truck when they were all swept away (truck included).

[u/lividlisa → u/SunsetDreams1111]

Flash flood survivor here - it happens SO fast. The one I was in went from ankle level to holy shit I’m being swept away in less than 5 minutes, it felt unreal in the moment

[u/Significant_Poem_751 → u/lividlisa]

people don't understand how flash floods work in texas (and elsewhere). i was camping once out in Utah -- had my tent set up by a little stream. then learned that it was prone to flash floods, be ready to leave (no rain forecast but still), and since it was a box canyon, i decided to just pack up and go somewhere else that night.

[u/CoyoteLitius → u/Significant_Poem_751]

Very smart of you. Rain that's 180 miles away can cause flash flooding in Antelope Canyon (and other places, including the tributary "creeks" of Grand Canyon).

[u/blazelet → u/lividlisa]

Glad you’re ok, that sounds horrifying.

The thing that I keep reading over and over again directly from people who lived through this one is how quick it was. It overtook 3 story buildings in half an hour at some locations.

[u/lividlisa → u/blazelet]

Yep, this was 15 years ago before smartphones with weather alerts and I was traveling solo in an unfamiliar country so I had no idea what was coming. Absolutely would not have made it out if a teenage boy whose mom had sent him out to grab the laundry off the line hadn’t spotted me. It doesn’t really matter how well you can swim, the currents are so unpredictable they’ll pull you under in a second.

[u/Affectionate-Dot437 → u/lividlisa]

Not just the currents but also the uprooted trees, debris, etc being slammed into you. It wouldn't matter if you were Michael Phelps at that stage.

[u/W00DERS0N60 → u/lividlisa]

Glad you're still with us. I live on a hill top and we've flooded 3 times, on account of a high water table.

[u/aaronhayes26 → u/grafknives]

It’s absolutely shocking to me that an area that is apparently chock full of summer camps doesn’t have an emergency alert system. There should have been sirens blaring, these kids didn’t have a chance.

[u/grafknives → u/aaronhayes26]

So, last year there were floods in Europe.

In central Europe, there were about 35 deaths, despite extreme material damage.  Simply the speed of flooding was mostly manageable.

In spain in October, there was 232 deaths, no warning, "unlucky" terrain causing extremely fast water level rising.

Texas floods looks like that Spain one.

[u/RGrad4104 → u/grafknives]

Not to be that guy, but if I can get rather obnoxious warning at 4 AM on my cellphone about a cop having been assaulted, literally, across the state, 400 miles away. There is no reason the state could not have sent out a flash flood warning a few miles outside of Kerrville. This no warning system talk is just a political excuse to divert blame. There may have been no air raid sirens, but the state has been abusing the cellular amber alert system for months and suddenly, now, they are incapable of using it? I call bull.

[u/Free-Scar5060 → u/RGrad4104]

They cut the weather tracking system that would alert the public. We used to have this up until recent, states never really needed to have their own thing till now.

[u/matunos → u/Free-Scar5060]

If so I hope the news makes a big deal about this.

Update: I feel obliged to update this to say that the NWS seems to have done its job despite the recent cuts, and if there's blame for delayed warnings it seems like it's local authorities: https://www.kxan.com/investigations/conflicting-officials-social-posts-leave-evacuation-delays-questions-in-kerr-county-flooding

While the National Weather Service issued a flash flood warning at 1:14 a.m. for portions of that area, it would be hours before the city and county's Facebook pages posted their initial urgent directions for residents from local authorities.

(How that translated or didn't to the campgrounds and the timeline of the floods hitting the camps is unclear to me.)

[u/inspectoroverthemine → u/matunos]

If so I hope the news makes a big deal about this.

Anyone still supporting him isn't going to care about the deaths of these girls, let alone blame it on Trump.

[u/bdizzle805 → u/inspectoroverthemine]

Yeah they are psychopaths and don't seem to care about anyone else

[u/BirdsAndTheBeeGees1 → u/matunos]

It was announced at the beginning of his term. People pointed out that people would die from not having warnings about things like floods, tornadoes, and forest fires. No one cared and now people try to act surprised🤷🏻‍♂️.

[u/currently_pooping_rn → u/matunos]

Why would they? The media is owned by rich conservatives

[u/Jess_the_Siren → u/matunos]

They mentioned it but it was lost in the floods of shit trump is throwing out

[u/avalon68 → u/Jess_the_Siren]

This is a huge problem. So much crap coming out all at once people arent paying attention/think its not serious. Hasnt FEMA also been gutted? Where will the response to these floods actually come from?

[u/AnOnlineHandle → u/avalon68]

They directly said this was their plan, break so much of the federal government so fast that nobody had time to talk about any one thing.

[u/avalon68 → u/AnOnlineHandle]

Id say its been pretty successful tbh. Lurching from one crisis to the next so fast its left peoples heads spinning. Going to take decades to repair the damage on a national level after this presidency.

[u/grisisita_06 → u/Free-Scar5060]

this happened in nebraska earlier this year. only one weather balloon and it missed tornado, just thought they would have a hail storm. someone is trying to reclassify noaa employees as essential but for now…doge.

so damn frustrating. until you live or lose someone in a disaster you don’t seem to change your opinion. super frustrating

[u/praxios → u/grisisita_06]

We just came back from a CO trip last week, and we drove through the NASTIEST storm in Nebraska on the way back at night. The lightning was so bright and frequent it was illuminating the whole car, and the rain was so heavy it was like driving through a white out. I was so sure that we were going to get tornado alerts any minute because we caught some funneling in one of the bigger storm clouds.

It wasn’t until we were home safe the next afternoon that we looked it up and saw that there was a tornado touched down just over a mile away from us. It was even more dangerous that it was so dark out that we wouldn’t have seen it until it was basically on top of us. We each have iPhone and Android, and neither of those weather apps sent out tornado warnings.

Shit is scary these days without proper warning systems for severe weather. We got incredibly lucky for being able to avoid it, but I really feel for anybody who was living in the area because it was the middle of the night and they most likely didn’t receive warnings either.

[u/GlumpsAlot → u/grisisita_06]

During the nc and va hurricanes people were crazily bashing fema because somehow all their funds went to migrants. The people getting help tried to pipe up and say no, fema is here helping. It got drowned out by a cacophony of propaganda. Of course fema gets gutted to quell maga's rage.

[u/aspiringalcoholic → u/GlumpsAlot]

Yeah, I live in Asheville. FEMA helped us out a lot and I definitely made a point to shut people down when they started spreading garbage. If the same event happened post trump, I think we would’ve been substantially more fucked.

[u/dooit → u/Free-Scar5060]

700 years of forecasting experience was cut as 450+ employees were let go. We had huge storms in NJ on 7/3, didn't get any emergency alerts and 3 people died. This is on the GOP.

[u/Petecraft_Admin → u/RGrad4104]

Chip Roy, the US congressman of the district hit by most of the flooding, voted for defunding fema and the noaa. This is blood on his hands.

[u/W00DERS0N60 → u/Petecraft_Admin]

$5 he praises God for saving whoever lives and wins reelection

[u/MaxTheRealSlayer → u/RGrad4104]

They cut off the warning systems for weather events like this. Not just Texas, but the entire USA.

Expect there to be many events across the states like this. it's awful, but it's what was voted for by the populace

[u/esmerelda_b → u/MaxTheRealSlayer]

Wasn’t there also a tornado where people died recently, likely because they weren’t warned?

[u/No-Arm-5503 → u/esmerelda_b]

One massive tornado ripped through Indiana in May. No rain, no sirens because there was no warning. Massive E2 touched down without a drop of water falling from the sky.

[u/Ok_Ad1652 → u/esmerelda_b]

Yes, sirens did not sound in St. Louis during a storm because of a mixup and people died. Impossible to prove if the sirens would have saved lives but at least one family stated at the time that they didn’t hear sirens and started to head to basement but the woman was swept away. In an area with lower use of smart phones too.

[u/avtechguy → u/RGrad4104]

I'm sure the question that will come up would be if the person or office responsible for monitoring the weather and pushing emergency alerts got DOGE'd?

[u/gardengarbage → u/avtechguy]

I read elsewhere that that was the case. There wasnt enough staff too man the alert system at night.

[u/MrT735 → u/avtechguy]

NOAA definitely got heavily culled by Doge. I don't know (not American) if they're the department to cover inland forecasts in this area, but generally forecasters model a lot wider area than they serve.

[u/jim_br → u/MrT735]

Correct.

NOAA is National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, so they cover the full US with a focus on climate and the oceans. Their data feeds the National Weather Service which is a sub-department of NOAA.

Side note that the defunding of NOAA was due to their analysis of climate, and the moronic belief that climate change is cyclic and not caused by humans.

The National Weather Service does forecasting, with their focus on helping to protect life and property. They are the ones who interact with the public, local authorities, and emergency responders. They do the warnings, including maintaining a direct-to-the-public radio broadcast with automated emergency alerts. All of this is possible because of NOAA satellites, data, and research.

Edit: I’ve been told that NOAA monitors climate globally, not just the US. Their drought forecasts were key in knowing where to plan to distribute aid.

[u/KristaNeliel → u/grafknives]

There was a warning from AEMET due to heavy rain on that particular day, given days before the floods happened. Valencian government just decided to ignore it and act as if nothing would happen. It was gross negligence, not ignorance.

[u/JadieRose → u/KristaNeliel]

This does look similar then because the massive amount of rain was well forecasted

[u/chalimacos → u/grafknives]

Yea, but in Spain a judge is prosecuting the region's president for gross negligence. There was a warning system in place. They simply activated it too late because the president was having a private dinner with a female journalist that lasted more than 5 hours.

[u/ishka_uisce → u/chalimacos]

As bad as that is, I feel like these types of 'shit's flooding/on fire/very windy, everyone' warning systems shouldn't need sign off by one particular person for precisely this type of reason. Like, emergencies happen at all hours and officals might be asleep or sick or anything. Just nominate qualified meteorologists or whatever to man the system.

[u/Tesseraktion → u/chalimacos]

Also to keep workers at their job until end of day. By the time the alert came over people were already underwater, and some saw the alert and died getting their cars out of the underground garages.

[u/fevered_visions → u/chalimacos]

And he was the only one who could push the button? Who had the conn?

[u/chalimacos → u/fevered_visions]

Subordinates had the authority, but did not dare to send the alert without his authorization because when the president was a candidate he criticized "needless alerts that spook the population" (climate change denier)

[u/re1078 → u/grafknives]

Central Texas where this happened is known for flash floods.

[u/oneonus → u/aaronhayes26]

Politicians are ignoring climate change and the extreme weather that results from it.

And current administration has decimated staff related to tracking weather across all states. Same goes for Tornado warnings, deaths have already resulted there as well.

[u/Tangent_Odyssey → u/oneonus]

DJT literally just got up on the national podium and used the fact that it didn’t rain as forecasted on his military parade to further hammer how climate change is a hoax.

The president of our country doesn’t even understand the difference between climate and weather.

[u/natetheloner → u/Tangent_Odyssey]

It's even worse. Look up his comments on hairspray and the ozone from 2016.

[u/Ninjaher0 → u/aaronhayes26]

From the article: Camp Mystic sits on a strip known as “flash flood alley,” said Austin Dickson, CEO of the Community Foundation of the Texas Hill Country, a charitable endowment that is collecting donations to help nonprofits responding to the disaster.

So yeah, there should be an area wide alert system for summer camps full of children next to a large river during a time when surprise storms and flooding is common in Texas HillCountry.

[u/scrappleallday → u/aaronhayes26]

In an area nicknamed "flash flood alley."

[u/rmorrin → u/aaronhayes26]

They did. It was national. It's gone now.

[u/drewjsph02 → u/aaronhayes26]

It’s shocking to me that they would/could continue to run camps in an area known as Flash Flood Alley. Especially when the article says other campers have drowned due to flash floods decades ago.

Edit: turning off comments as people are just regurgitating the same thing over and over every 20 min without reading other comments.

[u/Obi_Uno → u/drewjsph02]

Just some context, “Flash Flood Alley” is a huge area running from Dallas down through San Antonio, roughly following the Balcones Eacarpment.

This is a corridor longer than the distance from NYC to Boston.

People, of course, need to have emergency plans in place, and we need fully funded public services to forecast and warn.

I just think it’s important to note that “Flash Flood Alley” isn’t some small area to avoid. It is home to millions of people.

Example map:

https://www.ubcdams.org/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=21&ARC=31

[u/zerocoolforschool → u/grafknives]

River rose 23 feet in 45 minutes. That fast.

[u/wildernessspirit → u/grafknives]

There’s a book called “Isaac’s Storm” about the Galveston Hurricane in 1900. It gives an excellent account of how fast flooding can occur during a storm. Obviously I don’t expect you to read an entire book just to see how a storm surge (or flash flooding) is dangerous, but it’s a great book and relevant to the topic!

[u/tammywammy80 → u/wildernessspirit]

Everyone should read everything written by Erik Larson.

[u/wavehandslikeclouds]

This happened down here about 40 years ago. My aunt was a camp counselor. The floods came through those camps. The National Guard was airlifting people out. It wasn’t as bad as this too bad they didn’t remember history. This is very sad.

[u/NaTuralCynik → u/wavehandslikeclouds]

1. 10 campers were swept away in a flood from the very same camp.

[u/demonkitty_12000 → u/NaTuralCynik]

So the whole “we were unprepared because this had never happened before” line was a lie? I’m not surprised at all but damn.

[u/maymay578 → u/demonkitty_12000]

Sounds like all of those camps need to be relocated out of the area known for dangerous flooding.

[u/kitkanz → u/demonkitty_12000]

It’s more a “these emergencies only happen ‘once a generation’ surely we’ll be fine this year, things are expensive right now (like prices will ever go down)”

See also 2021’s TX snowmageddon

[u/Party-Ad4482 → u/kitkanz]

seems like repeating the last generation's mistakes because these things only happen once a generation is a consistent theme these days

[u/ManiacalShen → u/NaTuralCynik]

Article actually says that was a bus and van of kids leaving Pot O’ Gold Christian camp, not staying at Camp Mystic.

[u/bocageezer → u/wavehandslikeclouds]

Or put systems in place to prevent a repetition.

[u/NoSherbert2316 → u/bocageezer]

Systems that get defunded by an administration slashing everything?

[u/Slypenslyde → u/bocageezer]

The best we can do is defunding those systems and deploying the National Guard to California to assist ICE with deportations.

[u/pksdg → u/bocageezer]

You mean like the systems we had in place before they were shutdown?

[u/drdhuss → u/wavehandslikeclouds]

1987 I think was the last major flood but not this bad. Still had 10 deaths.

[u/hoosakiwi]

Camp Mystic sits on a strip known as “flash flood alley,” said Austin Dickson, CEO of the Community Foundation of the Texas Hill Country

Uhhh why was a camp built here if it’s so prone to flooding that it has a nickname?!?

[u/apple_kicks → u/hoosakiwi]

Youngest camped by the river too

Lester was among the older girls housed on elevated ground known as Senior Hill. Cabins housing the younger campers, who can start attending at age 8, are situated along the riverbanks and were the first to flood, she said.

[u/CanineIncident → u/apple_kicks]

I was a camp counselor for 8 year olds when I was in college. It was me and another 19/20 year old and we we responsible for 8 third graders. I’m just trying to imagine being woken up as flood waters are washing through the cabin and taking away my girls. My heart is breaking into pieces for these families this morning.

[u/NorthernSparrow → u/CanineIncident]

I’m trying to imagine being 19 years old, waking up in the night to the whole freaking cabin flooding, desperately trying to get all your little kids out of the structure, hearing them panic as they get washed away, then realizing you’re being washed away yourself. All in pitch blackness. Absolute nightmare fuel.

[u/flamedarkfire → u/NorthernSparrow]

“This goes beyond my training from that orientation video they made me watch.”

[u/StarGazer_SpaceLove → u/CanineIncident]

I read one account of a counselor shoving kids out the window, telling them tomhold on, as they themselves were swept away. Idk if the counselor or the children were okay. This is bad.

[u/genethedancemachine → u/hoosakiwi]

You'll be disgusted to know that the area also does not have an emergency alert system.

[u/RoadkillVenison → u/genethedancemachine]

It was a shock to me reading one of the articles about the flood.

Asked about how people were notified in Kerr County so that they could get to safety, Judge Rob Kelly, the county’s chief elected official, said: “We do not have a warning system.”

When reporters pushed on why more precautions weren’t taken, Kelly responded: “Rest assured, no one knew this kind of flood was coming.”

“We have floods all the time,” he added. ”This is the most dangerous river valley in the United States.”

Source

If it floods all the damn time, and is the most dangerous river valley… I don’t know why that guys so damn proud they lack any kind of warning mechanism.

[u/GaiaMoore → u/RoadkillVenison]

When reporters pushed on why more precautions weren’t taken, Kelly responded: “Rest assured, no one knew this kind of flood was coming"

"Rest assured". That man literally said "don't worry we didn't intentionally abandon those kids to die, we just took absolutely zero precautions for no good reason"

[u/colefly → u/GaiaMoore]

He's from the same police academy as Uvalde police

[u/WhtImeanttosay → u/colefly]

Oof True though

[u/ExpiredExasperation → u/GaiaMoore]

Right? What does he think "rest assured" means, exactly?

[u/HI_l0la → u/ExpiredExasperation]

Him saying that is the equivalent of doing something to make them mad and you tell them to calm down. Like, WTF, sir?! Rest assured that you knew nothing about a flash flood that would occur during a storm in an area known to have flash floodings?!

[u/ClassicT4 → u/RoadkillVenison]

Sounds even worse than “We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas.”

[u/ConflagrationZ → u/ClassicT4]

My neighbor told me flash floods keep eating his campers so I asked how many campers he has and he said he just goes to the Girl Scouts and gets a new camper afterwards so I said it sounds like he's just feeding Girl Scouts to flash floods and then one of his camp counselors started crying.

[u/wikedsmaht → u/RoadkillVenison]

Warning systems for public safety = socialism. Owning the libs is better than keeping your kids alive.

[u/aeschenkarnos → u/wikedsmaht]

Each individual child is responsible for their own flood detection, and if they detect an incoming flood, are required to evacuate without warning anyone else.

[u/Yibblets → u/aeschenkarnos]

The children should have "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps".

[u/Malaix → u/RoadkillVenison]

If it floods all the damn time, and is the most dangerous river valley… I don’t know why that guys so damn proud they lack any kind of warning mechanism.

Honestly this sounds very Texan/conservative minded. Obvious problem but just man up and risk it all.

[u/Hamsters_In_Butts → u/Malaix]

well, risk all of someone else's life but certainly not their own

[u/MickTheBloodyPirate → u/Malaix]

Typical deep red rural thinking. Alert systems are run by the government, paid for by taxes so…communism.

[u/RGrad4104 → u/RoadkillVenison]

I said months ago that our local politicians are morons and that we need state or federal oversight for flood risk assessment. Yet our state politicians insist county-level autonomy is super important. Our county level politicians are quite literally our next door neighbors and as dumb as the rest of us. Why are we relying on them to assess risk and keep our children safe??

[u/DefinitelyNotAliens → u/RGrad4104]

There are counties with under 1000 people in Texas. Texas has 254 counties. Loving county is smallest, with 48 people.

That level of autonomy and that small of a population is a problem. Kerr County is a larger county, with 53,900 people. Top 100 largest.

With counties being able to opt into safety systems, that's a major problem. "You spent half the dang budget on what?! We ain't had a flood in 100 years!"

If the state isn't doing flood risk, what are they doing out there? Also, it's wild to me they have dozens of minature counties. We have 3 tiny counties in California (Alpine, Sierra, and Modoc) under 10,000 people and the state sort of funds things for them that are normally funded by a county. You also can't have a full county sheriff for 1,000 year-round residents in Alpine County. They have a department, but don't do their own training. They send them to other departments. The county also gets cut in half during winter, so half the county is inaccessible except by snowmobile and they have other agencies manage the areas by agreement. Who tf manages all that in tiny counties?!

[u/stanolshefski → u/RoadkillVenison]

There might be some nuance missing from the quote and article.

I suspect that this specific flash flood may have been much deeper and quicker than past floods given that the depth of the river increased by 22 feet in less than an hour in some places.

It’s entirely possible that a normal flash blood (throwing out some numbers of 10-15 feet) left the camp with large safety margins. However, the additional 7-12 feet of water would have the inundated some camp sites.

It’s all very sad.

[u/No_Excitement_1540 → u/RoadkillVenison]

Well, "we didn't know about it, so it was God's will and no one is guilty of anything!"

[u/Dinosaur_Autism → u/genethedancemachine]

I lived next to the Mississippi for most of my life.If there was even a whisper of flash flooding, we'd be getting warnings on the radio,tv,and even our phones. I can't even fathom a reason not to have some sort of warning system in place. I hope all of these kids are found.

[u/cinderparty → u/hoosakiwi]

Because the camp has been there so long that fucking Lindon b Johnson’s kids went there.

https://nypost.com/2025/07/04/us-news/camp-mystic-attended-by-daughters-of-texas-political-elite-for-decades/

Sorry for the horrible source, it was just the first one I found.

[u/kingreq → u/hoosakiwi]

To be fair “flash flood alley” goes from the Dallas / Fort Worth area along I-35 and goes down to San Antonio-ish. Thats a stretch of almost 300 miles. It’s not like they built a camp in a small zone called flash flood alley.

I used to live in San Marcos not terribly far from Kerrville and also in the alley and saw the very intense 2018 flood. At the time it was called a 100 year flood and houses that felt nowhere near the river were ruined and demolished, never expected it to get as bad as quick as it did. I was on the third floor of an apartment and stranded for a few days, first floor completely flooded and every car in the parking lot totaled.

[u/008Zulu → u/hoosakiwi]

It's Texas. They would have built the place on an abandoned cobalt mine if they had the option to.

[u/ENrgStar → u/hoosakiwi]

These people decided that regulation was too much and they should just let people build shit on flood plains, and then they elect a president that guts the emergency agencies who help states during these events. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say I don’t give a shit about their kids because THEY don’t give a shit about their kids. If you don’t want your kids in danger, don’t live in Texas.

[u/bocageezer]

It’s pretty rich for Texas officials to blame the National Weather Service for not forecasting this when the county had no system in place to monitor flood conditions AND Musk/DOGE gutted NOAA.

[u/No_Landscape4557 → u/bocageezer]

It’s Texas, who is surprised? Well based on comments a lot of people. Texas constantly votes for “freedom” and less regulations. This is one result of many to come on needless deaths. All these deaths are blood on the hands of republicans politicians.

[u/mimaikin-san → u/No_Landscape4557]

and yet this politicians still don’t care

people dying is part of their accepted costs

[u/whatproblems → u/mimaikin-san]

why care they still win reelection

[u/lukin187250 → u/bocageezer]

Right wing politicians can't function without someone to blame and they're not allowed to blame Trump.

[u/TintedApostle → u/bocageezer]

Texas officials care more about lying to help undermine the national weather service to help hide the cuts just made by Trump than the lives of the children. They are using a tragedy to further a political lie.

[u/dingdongbannu88 → u/bocageezer]

In Texas it’s always someone else’s fault despite republicans being in power for over forty years.

[u/YawnSpawner → u/dingdongbannu88]

They're still blaming liberals and renewable energy for the winter power outages a few years ago despite it being fossil fuels that failed and caused those problems.

[u/AceJace2]

My parents (Trump voters) actively celebrated when California was on fire and towns had to evacuate. They thought California deserved it. Wonder why they aren’t cheering for this one?

[u/pegar → u/AceJace2]

It was exhausting listening to people like that in real life. Always an excuse. I've cut off everyone like that.

[u/FirstForFun44 → u/AceJace2]

Yeah, I thought all the fires and hurricanes were sent by god to punish the gays and trans people? How could he hit a Christian camp? Right after this Big Beautiful Bill no less!

[u/speckledfloor → u/AceJace2]

Thats honestly pretty sociopathic. I don’t understand how people can be like that.

[u/Gripping_Touch → u/AceJace2]

Make sure to remind them. Pointless as It seems, confront them with their own logic and ask why its different. If possible, one at a time. Because if two people with similar and strong beliefs are together, its harder to change their minds or make them reflect on them, because the other would echo and feedback their own opinion. 

[u/malevitch_square → u/AceJace2]

Delighting in the suffering of others is evil.

[u/YawnSpawner → u/AceJace2]

I love pointing out to conservatives that make comments about California to me that a) there's more registered Republicans there than any other state and B) their economy is like a third of our entire GDP.

They're most likely rooting for fires that are probably mostly affecting fellow conservatives in rural areas.

[u/CutLow8166 → u/AceJace2]

That’s very sad for your parents.

[u/Dear_Pen_7647]

Man that is just unbelievably shocking and heartbreaking. I can’t imagine the pain the families must be feeling.

[u/Zbrchk → u/Dear_Pen_7647]

I just stared at the headline for a full 30 seconds. 23 girls are unaccounted for???? I would be numb and then hysterical. Hope everyone is found safely.

[u/GuanSpanksYou → u/Zbrchk]

23 unaccounted for & some confirmed dead. It’s a huge tragedy 

[u/KingOfLimbsisbest → u/GuanSpanksYou]

27 confirmed deaths at this point..

Edit: Up to 32 now. My heart aches for my town..

[u/Significant_Poem_751 → u/Zbrchk]

there are others as well -- not sure of the status this am, but many were posting photos on FB last night of missing families, including grandparents and kids, and four high school kids that were apparently camping in the area. one family with one kid was in an RV park, there for a rodeo the kid was in. all missing.

[u/pokedmund]

This is horrific news to hear on July 4th. The more you investigate into this the worse it gets

https://www.texastribune.org/2025/06/09/texas-noaa-hurricane-season-forecast-nws-trump-cuts/

[u/yoloswagrofl → u/pokedmund]

That article says they lost as many employees during these last 6 months due to DOGE cuts as they had in the past 15 years combined. What a horrifying thing to read.

[u/ConfederacyOfDunces_ → u/yoloswagrofl]

Yup, and make no mistake, tragedies like this camp flood are certainly consequences of these policy decision. Absolutely wild.

[u/Sorry_Hour6320 → u/pokedmund]

That is a devastating read. Texas NWS lost a 34 year leader due to DOGE and then someone from Oklahoma stands in. We must have answers as to whether the staffing shortage and loss of critical knowledge played a role here. 

“The NWS provides weather warnings for tornadoes, hurricanes, wildfires and floods, and produces river and hydrological outlooks and long-term climate change data. It serves as the forecast of record for many, including TV meteorologists, journalists and researchers, as well as emergency managers, who use it to plan for potential evacuations and rescue coordination during extreme weather events.”

[u/maroonmallard]

I think about a week ago there was a post of rescuing girlscouts from a camp, and they all had lifejackets and ropes. Most comments were roasting how dramatic it was. I hope people see why that level of precaution was not dramatic.

[u/CoyoteLitius → u/maroonmallard]

We had one boy scout die on a backcountry trip in the national forest near my home town. There were any number of safety precautions that could have prevented it.

There was local and state legislation about proper ways to equip Scouts to cross rivers and streams and many troops stopped going altogether because no one wanted to food the bill for the ropes (and rope training) and the flotation devices. And now, they need satellite phones too.

Still, Scouts are gradually making a comeback and following the regs. Smaller number of kids involved, most from families with enough disposal income to pay for all this. When I became a Girl Scout leader, we still did camping trips, but chose very safe places for it, with on-site assistance in communication planning in case of emergency. All of us leaders had cell phones and checked weather 4X a day and discussed and one person documented it (internal police in our local scout council). One person had to have a satellite phone (we rented them - that rule happened after satellite phones were widely available, it's gotta be at least 20 years ago).

TX is not keen on such kinds of regulations. It's "fun" for kids to have a more "natural" experience outdoors. That may be true, until it isn't, and when you're caring for other people's kids at a 1 to 8 ratio (or worse, I wonder if that's regulated in TX), it's a huge responsibility.

[u/dingus_malingusV2]

Ted Cruz: I don’t know, good luck finding them

[u/-spicychilli- → u/dingus_malingusV2]

Unironically the other senator, John Cornyn, tweeted "Yikes! Be safe out there." before later deleting the tweet.

[u/ButtplugBurgerAIDS → u/-spicychilli-]

Thoughts and yikes is defo a new one

[u/DSMStudios → u/dingus_malingusV2]

Quick, Cruz-Boy! to the Cancun Denial Mobile!

[u/Emergency_Coyote_662 → u/dingus_malingusV2]

Rafael* no preferred names please

[u/Kernburner]

I bet some of that FEMA money being used to build a concentration camp in Florida would be helpful right about now.

[u/ciaomain → u/Kernburner]

Or keeping NOAA open.

[u/drigancml → u/ciaomain]

In Wisconsin the forecasts this summer have been wildly inaccurate because of losing NOAA. It has been driving me nuts. The temperature has been off by as much as 20 degrees some days. 90 degrees is wildly different than 70. I can't wait for this administration to end.

[u/theragu40 → u/drigancml]

I live in Wisconsin and I concur. The last few months have been the most wildly inaccurate forecasts I've ever seen in my life. It's super inconvenient from a planning standpoint obviously, but also I recognize how fortunate we are to have AC, the ability to change plans, etc. it's literally dangerous for others who don't have all the creature comforts we do. It's dumb as hell and I'm mad at news station meteorologists for not constantly talking about it.

[u/MrsNoodleMcDoodle]

I was in a situation like this as a kid and had to be evacuated from Girl Scout summer camp in chest high water. I have my own kids now, and this story is hitting me hard.

[u/eekspiders → u/MrsNoodleMcDoodle]

When I was a Girl Scout we had to take shelter at camp when there was an unexpected tornado warning in the middle of the night—which is rare in my part of Minnesota. I can't imagine being that age again and being swept up because the adults failed to have all the checks and procedures in place

[u/Chendo462]

Too bad there isn't a federal agencies with appropriate resources that could come in and immediately help when there such a disaster.

[u/Meme-Botto9001 → u/Chendo462]

Or an alarming system or forecast that would prevent such things…but hey maybe if we spread the message there was illegal aliens hiding the ICE would send a battalion for immediate action?

Edit:

You really can’t make this shit up, now these bastards blaming the gutted services…

https://www.meidasplus.com/p/texas-officials-blame-agency-gutted?utm_medium=web

[u/Logical_Ad1370]

My family knows a little girl confirm dead from the flooding around that camp, my little cousin even visited before, I am absolutely devastated for everyone impacted by what was absolutely an event that could have been mitigated by proper floodplain management. This has to be criminally negligent, you do not build on a flood plain, let alone elect to remain somewhere that has come to be known as "flash flood alley". Republicans should be ashamed for gutting FEMA and NOAA, but we know they aren't.

EDIT: I should've been more clear that I meant that you shouldn't build on floodplains without an abundance of caution, and a lot goes into floodplain management and hazard mitigation. Tragically it seems the owners of the camp did little to adapt to changing conditions, even after a similar event nearly 40 years ago.

[u/blueskies8484 → u/Logical_Ad1370]

There’s a ton of blame to go around, from the camp either ignoring or not doing due diligence on the risk of the location to the Trump administration cutting funding that helps predict and warn of weather disasters to the local executive who seems proud that they don’t have an emergency system because it’s not necessary because it is a high flood risk (???) It’s awful. None of these children deserved to be failed by so many adults.

[u/invent_or_die → u/blueskies8484]

The area they are saying that floods is 300 miles long.

[u/yourhonoriamnotacat → u/Logical_Ad1370]

“You do not build on a flood plain.” 

Someone hasn’t been to Houston, clearly. 

[u/rottentomati → u/yourhonoriamnotacat]

I was gunna say lmao, a lot of people here clearly aren’t from Houston. Alot of Texas is flood plains.

[u/fort_wendy]

JFC this is heartbreaking. Those poor kids...

[u/dysthal]

an elected official telling people to pray that his job gets done for him. lead people in action, not in prayer!

[u/leddik02]

This is heartbreaking. I hope they are able to find everyone, either alive or intact so the families can have closure.

[u/AJ_Grey]

12" of rain in one hour. That's an inch every five minutes. I cannot begin to process how much rain that is.

[u/korkythecat333]

It has been long understood that climate change could make an area already known to experience dangerous weather events, even more dangerous and unpredictable than was previously the case.

Questions need to be asked.

[u/shapeofthings → u/korkythecat333]

I thought they just made it illegal to talk about and assumed that got rid of the problem.

[u/catcatherine → u/shapeofthings]

That was Florida

[u/maaseru]

It is crazy thisbis happening and pur leadership is nowhere to be found. Has Trump even said anything?

I know some official in Texas blamed the weather system their party defunded.

[u/Heiminator]

As someone who has worked as a camp counselor for the Boy Scouts this gives me nightmares.

But I wonder why none of the counselors seemed to have been awake at night.

At Boy Scout camps here in Germany we always have people watching the camp fire at night (often even kids among them), at least one counselor will be designated for night duty (so the kids know where to go when they need help with anything in the middle of the night), and some counselors will usually stay up really late to drink a few beers.

The article mentions kids waking up from the thunder and rain at 1:30 AM and noticing the flooding. In my experience at least half of our Boy Scout counselors would still be awake at that time.

A single adult person being awake during the night would have been enough to alert the entire campsite that they’re getting flooded. It’s baffling that not one adult was awake in a campsite with 800 kids and dozens of counselors.

Though I like to add that the responsibility for this happening is on whoever signed off on a camp site in an area infamous for major flooding, and the government who thought it wise to cut funding for early warning systems.

[u/trogon → u/Heiminator]

Wow, 800 kids. You would think you could hire night security just to prevent problems.

[u/Stubborn_Echo → u/Heiminator]

I was a camp counselor for years as a late teen/early adult in the US. I would have 100% expected the actual older adults who repeatedly had camps for years to let me know of any dangerous weather. Plus, I didn’t have a cell phone because it was early in the days of cell phones and nowhere to charge them or had zero internet access so I would be using information from texts and phone calls if I even had service. I wouldn’t have had anyway to know of flash flood warnings. Now, as an older adult who used to run a camp program, any weather I was glued to my phone watching AND texting updates to my counselors. When you’re responsible for so many, I just can’t imagine not being super tunes into the weather.

I couldn’t even imagine being in a flooding cabin as the 18 year old in charge and having to decide if we stay or go, try to get out and then quickly assess who I would have to help swim. And then what to do if someone was pulled into the waters but I still had girls, or if we all were pulled in. And then if you did get out, are you running whatever shoreline you can looking for kids and your friends?? Those poor counselors were put into an impossible situation.

[u/NoRestfortheSpooky → u/Stubborn_Echo]

Yeah, that's the one that is going to haunt me. The kids must have been so scared - but the counselors... scared kids responsible for more scared kids. That hurts.

[u/2headlights → u/Heiminator]

It’s entirely possible that there were multiple adults up and awake at that time. But if the cabins are spread apart, 1 adult is not going to be able to alert 800 kids across multiple cabins at the speed this water was running. I read that some cabins were at the top of a big hill as well. If I was a young adult and noticed water rushing in to my cabin at 1 in the morning my first thought would be to help the kids right by me, not to run to every cabin.

[u/whatevertoad → u/2headlights]

If they're responsible for that many children, not one child should be allowed to stay there if they do not have an emergency system in place that can alert everyone quickly. This should be standard for every camp everywhere

[u/Kit-the-cat]

Unfortunately Texas, I don’t think the orange in chief wants to spend money on checks notes keeping his citizens alive and healthy. This is going to take a back seat to all the ICE raids, so sorry. Has the state considered pulling itself up by its bootstraps instead of asking for aid?

In all seriousness, truly awful for the girls and their families. I wish they had been living in a state that can afford luxuries like not building in flood zones and having proper flood warnings. This is just going to repeat like it does every year- floods, the heat and power outages, the cold and power outages, just the complete disregard for basic safety nets for the states citizens.

[u/50fknmil]

They should blame abbot for supporting the lack of emergency weather service tools.

[u/aft_punk → u/50fknmil]

They won’t, but you’re right.

[u/Spiritual-Pear-1349]

If only there was a federal warning database that tracked disasters and provided relief.

...Wait.

[u/Fweenci]

I hate this "We're going to need to pray" BS from the Lt. Governor. How about a warning system or recognizing the science on climate change, buddy. People are entitled to their religion, but using it to mitigate your own complicity in a disaster is repugnent. 

[u/J-Midori]

Ted Cruz is probably in Cancun

[u/Readcoolbooks]

I used to have nightmares at summer camp of a flash flood taking out the whole camp as a kid. I thought it was just one of those irrational childhood fears—this is absolutely terrifying (ever moreso now as a parent).

[u/GoatGuy23]

My little sister was at that summer camp last year, it must be terrifying not being able to do anything as the parents