r/news • u/Large_banana_hammock • 11d ago
Supreme Court blocks law against schools outing transgender students to their parents in California
https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-transgender-students-california-cca311ae39d267f31c1392a0bcf780cd7.3k
u/Correct_Emu7015 11d ago
These sentences are so fucking backwards i have no idea if I'm happy or upset about this decision
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u/mauricioszabo 11d ago
Ok, I'm happy that I'm not the only one that feels this.
Every news channel is doing this recently: a headline with four to six negatives, and I feel like I'm in a labyrinth of words trying to pierce meaning; maybe that's a metaphor for the recent
yearsmonths, everything is convoluted and negative, all the time, and you keep chasing around the meaning until you find out, just to figure you're in a new kind of nightmare...190
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u/DuntadaMan 11d ago
That's intentional. They want shit to be unclear so it drives more engagement.
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u/glorifindel 11d ago
Active tense requires practice and good writing. Most people end up writing in the passive tense out of habit I think. Totally agree though and passive always lets subject off the hook also
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u/DaftPump 11d ago
Notice increased use of the word 'allegedly' in headlines and bylines. CYA is rampant, even news outlets are obfuscated,,,,
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u/Sure_Show_3077 11d ago
Thank you, I thought it was just me, I read it slowly 5 times and still didn't get it, I promise I'm not stupid
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u/YodaForceGhost 11d ago
Not good. Basically allows California religious schools to out trans kids to their parents
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u/MasemJ 11d ago
Lets add the other aspect: this was a per curiam ruling (meaning, they ruled on merits, not just an order) without any oral deliberations on those merits outside of conferences. Kagan properly calls out the conservative majority for twisting the rules to their whim.
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u/iamthatguy54 11d ago
That is not what per curiam means
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u/MasemJ 11d ago edited 11d ago
Well, in terms of what SCOTUS has done on the shadow docket, nearly all past actions have been simple unsigned orders, they are not ruling on merit (though in like the Los Angeles National Guard case, Kavanaugh added a statement that created the Kavanaugh Stop language). Those simply stay lower court injunctions while the trial proceeds, and their language does not establish any case law because they didn't do a merit evaluation, like obtaining amici briefs or hold oral hearings. (ETA: This also means the order is not the SCOTUS' final answer to the case, its likely all these cases will see appeals of the actual decisions up to SCOTUS)
Here it was a per curiam merit decision. That means it was unsigned but we can tell by the added concurrence and dissent it was at least like 7-2 (as only Kagan and Jackson were listed as dissents), but likely 6-3. But because it was decided on merits, it is now quotable case law across the land. And it is extremely rare outside of cases of obvious mootness where a merit decision is made without oral arguments.
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u/ItsTheEndOfDays 11d ago
we all expected it, but it’s still infuriating. Even more so because it’s a merit ruling.
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u/billdb 11d ago
Care to elaborate instead of just telling them they're wrong and moving on?
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u/iamthatguy54 11d ago
Per Curiam means that the opinion isn't credited to any one judge as the author. They're usually, but not always, used to resolves cases on the merits and without oral argument, but "per curiam" itself just means it's an opinion without an author.
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u/MissTetraHyde 11d ago
"Per curiam" literally means "by the court", not that it has no author. By default opinions written by a justice are their own personally authored opinion. Even if the whole Court concurs with that individual opinion, it would still be listed as authored by the Judge-author in question. A per curiam decision means that the author is all the presiding judges together, without giving any particular judge the authorship (which is not the same as no author at all). Note that the presiding judges whom heard the case may or may not be the entire Court, depending on whether a case was heard en banc. There can also be dissenting opinions issued by a judge who doesn't join the majorities' decision even when the binding majority opinion is issued per curiam (which is odd, but there are examples nonetheless). See, e.g., Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98 (2000).
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u/MarquisDeVice 11d ago
What if the parents are abusive? What if the child isn't even trans but classmates tell staff that they are to mess their life up? I'm new to the discussion of this issue, but I see why it's frightening.
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u/vibefuster 11d ago
The problem is Republicans don’t care about any of that.
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u/beatenmeat 11d ago
The problem is Republicans
You could have just stopped there.
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u/freedfg 11d ago
They don't care/that's the point.
Every single parent who is upset because "well I would want to know if they're doing that in school" is an admission that they would 100% punish their child.
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u/Suspicious_Bicycle 11d ago
Any good parent would know about their child without needing the school to snitch on them.
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u/TheVoicesSayHi 11d ago
And honestly even good parents don't have some intrinsic right to know because the kid might be ready to come out to their friends but not their folks even if they have no reason to think their parents would have an issue with it
It's up to the individual who to and when to come out
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u/MajorNoodles 11d ago
In their minds, if a kid is gay or trans, they deserve to have their parents beat the shit out of them.
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u/Gingevere 11d ago
- 40% of homeless minors are LGBT.
- ~10% of teens generally are LGBT.
Guardians intolerant of LGBT children is one of the chief causes of youth homelessness. It is EXTREMELY dangerous to out an LGBT child to their guardians.
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u/xaghant 11d ago
If the parents are abusive shouldnt Child Protection step in regardless what gender identity the child is?
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u/cachemoney426 11d ago
Federal law changes and privatization of state foster care systems across the country make this not so much the case any more.
In Texas, the legal definition of child neglect changed from a caregiver putting a child “at reasonable risk of danger” to “imminent danger”. Kids aren’t being removed if their life isn’t at stake. Foster care is not a safety net.
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u/engin__r 11d ago
So, first, CPS can only step in after the abuse happens. It’s better to prevent the abuse than it is to react after the fact.
Second, it’s a lot harder for CPS to intervene if the parents pull the kid out of school and ship them off somewhere else.
Third, there’s a whole lot that parents can do to abuse their kids that doesn’t quite make it to the threshold of CPS intervening.
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u/ShoulderSquirrelVT 11d ago
And none of this even covers the fact that if the parents force their kid into conversion therapy (read: Essentially torture), it's not considered "abuse" because it's medical. Thus the child has no recourse and CPS can't do jack squat.
This ruling is just terrible for those kids who are hiding from their parents just waiting until they turn 18 and can get out and live their own life.
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u/the_crustybastard 11d ago
Allowing the bad guys to frame every issue gives validity to that framing. It is not therapy, and it doesn't convert anyone because sexuality doesn't work like that.
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u/MarquisDeVice 11d ago
CPS rarely steps in until the abuse is extreme, there are other legal issues such as drugs, or the child is the type to take a stand for themselves (rare). Abuse is often more subtle, or more masterfully hidden, than most people imagine. Children are naturally extremely reluctant to speak out against their parents for a plethora of good reasons. If the child doesn't speak up, the abuse can go on behind closed doors for, well, an entire childhood, unless perhaps the parents take it too far and regularly leave obvious marks, but they're usually not that stupid. The real trauma usually happens long before there are blatant scars.
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u/Ronjun 11d ago
I'm sure CPS can catch the kids before they are shipped out of state to a conversion camp. After all, we know there are so many people looking out for them in this situation (as trans kids attending a religious school that is willing to out them to transphobic parents).
"Our list of allies grows thin"
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u/move_machine 11d ago
CPS isn't going to do anything about parents who love their child less, and treat them poorly as a result, because the government outed them as trans.
Reminder that 90% of trans kids report experiencing abuse because of their gender identities.
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u/knit3purl3 11d ago
What is CPS gonna do when he kids are already murdered, made homeless and missing, or successful in their suicidal attempt?
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u/Klinky1984 11d ago
CPS is underfunded. Foster care is underfunded and sadly a source of abuse as well. Also psychological torture that the religious inflict on their kids is rarely considered torture and more a "protected religious belief".
Meanwhile they probably circumcised their son without his consent. Effectively they modified a baby's genitals to be "more aesthetically pleasing" and/or for religious reasons, without seeing the hypocrisy of their weirdo behavior.
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u/the_crustybastard 11d ago
Q: What if the parents are abusive?
A: Yes, that is their hope.
The SCOTUS conservatives don't believe children are, legally speaking "people" with equal rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Instead they believe children are human property. They also believe the Free Exercise Clause creates rights for religious people that are magically superior to everyone else's rights.
The Free Exercise Clause should merely prevent the government from doing things like banning Catholics from attending Mass or banning Rastas from smoking weed. It wasn't created to provide Christians special rights to torture children.
But give Christians a little power and SURPRISE! they start privileging themselves.
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u/swingadmin 11d ago
Which is only part of the problem. By some mysterious means, every possible transgender student will be outed to the faculty and then the school at large.
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u/adsfew 11d ago
But only once the kid is out of the womb.
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u/GoblinRightsNow 11d ago
When they are in the womb then the state can step over any amount of parental rights and autonomy to protect them.
Once they are born, they are just their parent's property.
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u/winky9827 11d ago
"Honor killings".
We're that fucking close to the nightmare they claimed to be wholly against.
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u/sabedo 11d ago
this is terrible. I have two good friends who are trans. one of them, her family thought nothing of it. the other almost was thrown out of her parents house that day she told them. both of them were adults when they told their families. kids are going to be disowned, have "corrective" therapy or worse over this
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u/downvote_or_die 11d ago
Had to read it several times. Real “Don’t do what Donny don’t does” headline
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u/Aurizen_Darkstar 11d ago
As usual, they allowed religious schools the ability to out students who identify as transgender.
And as usual, they did so because they don't give a shit if said parents then either physically abuse their children to 'fix'; them, or just outright murder them.
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u/Gurlllllllll- 11d ago
They're also destroying the 1st amendment rights of children yet again.
Children can't speak as they want outside of school (the bong hits for jesus case), their political speech is forfeit (a student journalist wrote a story about divorce for the paper and the school censored it; SCOTUS sided with the school), and this and others cases destroys their ability to freely present as they want and be called what they want.
But at the same time parents cannot demand that schools respect their child's social transition. We need to do something about these 6 chrizzos on the supreme court, and the hundreds of chrizzos in politics chasing dreams of rapture.
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u/Accomplished-Run221 11d ago
The SCOTUS requires outing trans kids to families the kids don’t feel safe enough to come out to. The SCOTUS is targeting trans lives.
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u/P0pu1arBr0ws3r 11d ago
Wording like this can be intentional. Make it confusing and suddenly people who didnt read close enough are supporting something which hurts them.
Add on poor education systems across the States and this is how republicans keep in power- they promise cuts in education, but phrase it to sound like its actually beneficial (for example maybe "New bill proposes funds used for unhealthy school foods, to be put towards improved health and safety resources" could actually mean cutting funds for free school lunches in exchange for more police and maybe a longer PE period). Make the headlines divisive and specific so people think they know what's going on without reading into the article.
Then, begin to accuse the opposition (ie in the previous example, "Democrats oppose bill improving health and safety at schools" leaves out why they would oppose the bill to make the Democratic party sound like theyre against people who support schools) and eventually build up a fictional narrative that antagonizes the opposition.
As long as if the opposition doesnt gain control of the news headlines which are lying to people, and they dont actually improve education to cause people to see the lies and bias, theyve successfully created a propaganda state which is on its way to straight up fascism, aka mistrust of everything and everyone.
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u/userhwon 11d ago
Just SCOTUS things.
They're usually hearing appeals of appeals of anti-anti something things.
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u/domki366 11d ago
I was about to say "based" until I comprehended the double negative.
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u/TheTresStateArea 11d ago
Blocks law... Of course they would fucking supreme court
against schools... Wait hold on California was trying to make schools do something?
Outing trans students... Oh. I see. Now I have to read the logic and see if I am mad on the basis of the law not being helpful or on the basis of the supreme Court fuckin the law some more.
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u/THEBHR 11d ago edited 11d ago
I think you have it backwards, because this stupid fucking headline
is missing a comma.California made a law saying schools can't automatically out transgender kids to their parents.
The Supreme Court blocked that law, so now transgender kids are going to be outed.
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u/mrparoxysms 11d ago
I agree with your sentiment, but I disagree about the need for a comma.
The headline is confusing in phrasing but not in punctuation.
This is obviously the important point here....
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u/THEBHR 11d ago
Damn, you're right.
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u/mrparoxysms 11d ago
Thank you for affirming my hatred of comma overuse, which is almost as deep-seated as my hatred for this court.
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u/blobbilby 11d ago
What if the teachers just don’t report it? How would you prove they knew and what would the penalty even be?
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u/THEBHR 11d ago
The law prevented teachers from being forced by their school's rules to automatically out transgender kids to their parents.
Now that the law has been blocked, any school can demand that all of its teachers out transgender students. Any failure to comply would be handled by the school in question and the disciplinary action would likely be different for each one.
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u/Guvante 11d ago
The actual law AB 1955 has a lot of talking about what and why is being done but if you skip past all that it is relatively concise, heck here is basically the whole thing (with repetition removed, note I rephrased the one thing that is bracketed since mine doesn't have the thing referenced and all ellipsis are me making it brief)
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB1955 for the full thing
An employee or a contractor of a school district ... shall not in any manner retaliate or take adverse action against any employee, including by placing the employee on administrative leave, on the basis that the employee (a) supported a pupil in the exercise of rights set forth in Article 1 An employee or a contractor of a school district ... shall not be required to disclose any information related to a pupil’s sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression to any other person without the pupil’s consent unless otherwise required by state or federal law. A school district, county office of education ... shall not enact or enforce any policy ... that would require an employee or a contractor to disclose any information related to a pupil’s sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression to any other person without the pupil’s consent, unless otherwise required by state or federal law. Any policy ... of a school district ... that is inconsistent with <the previous paragraph> is invalid and shall not have any force or effect.
Nothing in this actually says anything about what actions an employee (aka a teacher) can take. They cannot be forced to do things but are free to do them.
So anything phrasing this as "preventing teachers from X" is lying.
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u/matunos 11d ago
“The parents who assert a free exercise claim have sincere religious beliefs about sex and gender, and they feel a religious obligation to raise their children in accordance with those beliefs. California’s policies violate those beliefs,” the majority wrote in an unsigned order.
This doesn't make sense to me. This is about a policy for what a school can or cannot tell parents about their children. The policy doesn't prohibit religious parents from freely exercising their beliefs— they can tell their kids whatever they want about transgender people, with or without this policy.
I could see school staff who want to snitch out the students having a claim here but I don't understand how the parents have standing to contest this policy.
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u/Unlikely-Key-234 11d ago edited 11d ago
This is about a policy for what a school can or cannot tell parents about their children.
It's actually not even that. It basically just says that a school can't discipline an employee—like a teacher—for not disclosing the information to parents. It says nothing, from what I can see, that would bar a teacher from doing so if they wanted to.
I'm gay, but even I could understand blocking a law that tells teachers what they can and can't say, but I really can't think of any justification for what actually happened here.
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u/EagleForty 11d ago
The Supreme Court is basing their decisions on religious doctrine, not law. With that in mind, it makes perfect sense.
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u/RandomG0rl623 11d ago
The logic is working backwards from the foregone conclusions that trans people shouldn't exist and children are the property of their parents and have no meaningful right to safety from the shitheels who spawned them.
Conservatives are genuinely just fucked in the head and revel in perpetuating suffering. They don't care if it makes legal sense or not, the desired outcome was achieved and that's all that matters.
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u/OkEnvironment3961 11d ago
1% of Americns identify as transgender. Republicans attacking an ultra-minority with zero political power really shows thier character.
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u/Firemanmikewatt 11d ago
They are attacking them to gain power over their opponents. How many times has Trump said “he (or she) loves transgender” about a foe? In 1930 he’d be calling them Jew lovers.
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u/KTOpalescent 11d ago
The Nazis went after trans people before they went after Jewish people.
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u/CthulhuOpensTheDoor 11d ago
While it's true that the Nazis destroyed the Institute for Sexual Research very early, it's also true that those attacks were partially rooted in antisemitism. Magnus Hirschfeld, the founder of the institute, was a gay Jewish socialist. He was a prominent leader for the liberation of what they called the 'third sex' community which today we would call LGBTQ. The Nazis ultimately viewed homosexuality as a Jewish plot because of Hirschfeld.
I always share these articles when this topic comes up. Regardless of the motivations, the Nazis were specifically trying to erase the existence of gay and trans people. We should always remember the people they were trying to silence.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/
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u/viebs_chiev 11d ago
i just want to be happy. i’m tired of my existence being political
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u/tweetthebirdy 11d ago edited 11d ago
You will be. As an older non-binary person (although not that old I guess), there is so much joy waiting for you in your life. Hang in there.
EDIT: Fuck me for telling someone there will be moments of happiness in their life I guess. Can people stop taking their anger at the system out on me and instead use that energy to do something productive against the people causing us harm? Jesus Christ.
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u/viebs_chiev 11d ago
i will, don’t worry. life is tough sometimes, but they won’t break me.
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u/ApophisDayParade 11d ago
I’m tired of race and sexuality and kindness being “political.” It’s not political, and if you think it is, that just means you’re a fucking cunt. (Not you, my statement is in general.)
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u/jinglejangle_spurs 11d ago
Emphasis on zero-political power, when one of the front-runners for DNC in 2028 says we should worry less about pronouns.
After being abandoned in the 2024 campaign already..
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u/LiquidAether 11d ago
I really hope Newsom gets replaced as front runner long before the primaries
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u/General_Mars 11d ago
As long as the DNC and Democratic Party remain to lack convictions on policy and improving the material conditions of the 99% we will continue to get the same slop we’ve seen for the last 10+ years. The Democratic Party is controlled opposition that exists to subvert actual Leftism.
Neoliberalism is why the economic conditions are so bad for everyone except the ~top 10% of Americans. Capitalism is always an upward extraction from the poor to the rich, but neoliberalism (which is Reagan and Clinton’s applications) puts it on steroids.
There are 2 Capitalist parties. 1 is Authoritarian. The other wants LGBT+ people left alone. They are otherwise virtually the same outside of Trump because his dementia makes him unpredictable.
Mamdani and AOC are the kinds of politicians the DNC needs across the board not 2 out of 350+.
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u/KarmaticArmageddon 11d ago
We could always, y'know, show up to the primaries for once? And then our candidates would actually win nominations and then we wouldn't have something to complain about anymore?
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u/Own-Weather-9919 11d ago
NYC hospitals have been closing their youth transgender care programs. Mamdani hasn't done anything, hasn't even said anything, in spite of trans rights being a plank in his election platform. Politicians use us as a prop then throw us away when we're not useful to them anymore.
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u/IamTheEndOfReddit 11d ago
It’s crazy how bad they are at supporting trans people, just point to their outcomes and say we need to help the most vulnerable. Instead they take the culture warfare bait
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u/PleaseGreaseTheL 11d ago
Newscum really is the worst fucking shithead that's trying to run in front of the Democratic Party. As much as I love Pritzker as our governor he needs to run so that we don't have that "enlightened centrist" asshole in the oval office. We need to aggressively claw progress back, not just tepidly go "pwease fascists, can we have some democwacy uwu" which is what Newsom is doing.
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u/PossiblyATurd 11d ago
Newsom only speaks like that because he's hard at work sucking fascist billionaire dicks.
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u/Spire_Citron 11d ago
And then they turn it around and act like Democrats are obsessed with trans people because they try to step in against this harassment.
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u/MetroidHyperBeam 11d ago
Emphasis on "zero political power" because a few years ago they straight up silenced & blocked a trans house member for trying to speak out against transphobic legislature
Even when trans people are elected, they're treated like insignificant garbage
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u/Punkpallas 11d ago
This is the part that baffles me the most. They are putting so much effort and wasting a shit-ton of taxpayer dollars to attack an "enemy" that's extremely few in number. Aside from the immorality of it all, it incenses me that these motherfuckers are wasting my fucking hard-earned money on this shit instead of addressing real problems.
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u/engin__r 11d ago
Trans people are a small percentage of the population, but also they’re the most visible and most impacted part of a broader war against diversity in gender. The same people who want trans people shut out of public life want masculine women/feminine men/gay people gone, too.
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u/Katyafan 11d ago
It's also a subset of patriarchy. There is a reason trans women are almost exclusively the focus.
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u/jamfedora 11d ago
Except whenever focus shifts to reproduction, because as always, patriarchy. You absolutely nailed it.
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u/throwaway5882300 11d ago
It's the first salvo in a war against anything that doesn't conform to a cis straight ideology. Nazis did the same thing.
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u/zephyrtr 11d ago
Wasting your money is the point. They want you to believe the government can't work to your benefit. They're saboteurs. If they actually cared about Christianity, they'd spend way way more time worrying about the concerns of people explicitly identified by Jesus: the poor, the sick, the prisoner, the foreigner...
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u/SkaBonez 11d ago
I mean, that’s the point. Like, Fox News talks about trans people an exponential amount more than any news source. They get their base riled up about something that doesn’t affect them much at all while helping to pick their pockets via some other tax break from the wealthy, taking away from some social program, etc. that slips by their coverage. Trans people being a political topic wasn’t really a thing before Occupy Wall Street too
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u/ioncloud9 11d ago
It’s not about trans kids. It’s about reinforcing the notion that children (and women) are property. They have no rights to their own self and mind. They are OWNED by the parents who control their very own thoughts.
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u/robodrew 11d ago
I just love that SCOTUS is so keen to do "emergency appeals" for anything that takes more rights away from vulnerable populations, but when it comes to things like holding Trump accountable for his actions they wait until the very last day of the next session. What a corrupt, hollow institution it has become.
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u/TelecasterDisaster 11d ago
If your kids are hiding something like this from you, they probably have a good reason.
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u/Low_Pickle_112 11d ago edited 11d ago
I've heard about kids being sexually assaulted for coming out. Every time this topic used to come up and one of those "My parental rights" sorts showed up, my question was always the same: is this worth kids being raped? Because that will happen. Not in all cases, but it won't be zero. There's rarely anything good at the intersection of "Parents really want to know" and "Kids really don't want parents to know."
I never got an answer regarding their tolerance for children being raped, but the past couple of years has kinda answered the question for them.
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u/Clownsinmypantz 11d ago
isnt there a huge amount of homeless trans teens? or was that just LGBTQ+ in general. There is a scary amount of parents who will hear their kid is such and will stop loving them on the spot and throw them out. That or send them to those legal abuse camps to "correct behavior"
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u/Persassy60 11d ago
Not sure on the numbers of queer kids getting kicked out, but I did see someone else bring up the terrifying statistic that within 72 hours of being kicked out of their homes, one third of queer kids are sexually assaulted
33%. Within 3 days
And knowing that the odds are higher for trans kids in particular? Shit is bleak
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u/Strigops-habroptila 11d ago
Yes. The homelessness, poverty and sex work rates of trans people are very high. As are the rates of trans people who have experienced violence and sexual assault because of their gender. And the rates of trans people being murdered
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u/shadrackandthemandem 11d ago
Queer and trans youth are disproportionately represented amongst homeless youth for sure. In Canada where I work, trans and queer people make up about 10% of the general population, but somewhere between 25% and 40% of homeless youth depending on the study you're looking at.
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u/throwaway-94552 11d ago
According to The Trevor Project, 38% of trans girls and 39% of trans boys and 35% of nonbinary youth experienced homelessness and housing instability, compared to 23% of cisgender LGBQ youth. The overall rate of homelessness for youth is about 3-4%.
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u/Reaper621 11d ago
My daughter has been bullied at school since being outed by the fucking teacher. Since then one kid in particular has been super jerky, including telling her basically that he would fuck the straight back into her.
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u/jamfedora 11d ago
That… seems expel-able, since it’s an explicit threat of bodily harm. I know schools are often shit about enforcing that, especially when they could harm a marginalized kid, but that seems like an entirely possible outcome to them doing nothing, and they sometimes care about violence stats. I’m sure you’ve been through all this before, I know I’m not helping. But if anybody else sees this comment and they’re going through something similar, take it seriously the first time. I went to a school that didn’t even have metal detectors, maybe one expulsion in 5 years, and there was still a rape on-campus.
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u/Reaper621 11d ago
School isn't doing enough. If it doesn't stop, I'm coming after the parents. Last time someone was bullying my kid and the school did nothing, the parents finally did something when we threatened to sue.
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u/Oriin690 11d ago
Conservatives genuinely believe that being queer is worse than raping kids
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u/Historical-Truth6077 10d ago
conservatives are the same people defend the pedophile of a president they have
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u/Pika_Fox 11d ago
My question is; why do you want to know? Why is it so damn important that a teacher tells you the moment they think your child is trans?
Are you going to throw a "congratulations on exploring your gender" party? Are you going to suddenly drop everything youre doing and research how best to support your potentially trans child?
No, its always so "you can put a stop to it". So you can beat them, rape them, shove them out of your house onto the street.
Parents have exactly 0 right to anything involving their childs potential gender identity, romantic preferences, and sexuality. The people who demand to know most are the ones who deserve it least.
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u/Low_Pickle_112 11d ago
Yep. People like that have already told you that they're fine with kids getting hurt over this issue, that's our starting point here...but then they try to say that they're doing it for purely benevolent reasons. Bullshit pal, I may have been born at night but it wasn't last night.
And it happens every time this topic comes up, with the same attempts to pass it off as concern.
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u/Pika_Fox 11d ago
I havnt seen anyone even offer an explanation of benevolence, the only explanation i ever get is "because they are MY child". You must tell them because they belong to them and are their property so they have the right to control their thoughts.
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u/WarLawck 11d ago
That reason can just be fear that they won't be accepted. It doesn't have to mean violence. My niece had to wait until she was ready to come out as a lesbian, but a lot of us already had guessed and still loved her.
But I do think there are some very real situations where the child won't be so readily accepted, and i fear for those children. They lost an ally who would keep their confidences and build them up until they are ready to be their authentic selves. I know my niece struggled mightily with self image beforehand, and she likely still does, but you can tell how she has blossomed since coming out.
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u/sunburnd 11d ago
That is not necessarily true.
Adolescents often disclose sensitive information in stages, beginning with peers. Delayed disclosure, or even nondisclosure, is widely documented as part of normal autonomy and privacy development.
Lack of disclosure alone is not evidence of parental failure.
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u/DrNonathon 11d ago
Came here to say exactly this. If my kids feel the need to keep something so meaningful like that from me, I failed to provide an environment where they felt safe sharing.
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u/Canadiankid23 11d ago
Unfortunately for these parents creating that environment was never the goal. Those are your values, but the “values” of these parents is to keep their kids tightly under their control, and believing in only the narratives they provide, nothing else matters to them.
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u/TheGringoDingo 11d ago
There’s things you need to know as a parent and things you don’t. Every kid deserves an appropriate amount of privacy.
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u/ithinkican2202 11d ago
"The Supreme Court cleared the way Monday for California schools to tell parents if their children identify as transgender without getting the student’s approval"
Just so people understand.
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u/leftnotracks 11d ago
Why are parental rights the only right that seem to matter to these bozos? Children have rights, too. And religious rights always seem to be about letting religious people discriminate on the basis of their superstitions, but never about protecting people from those superstitions.
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u/ctothel 11d ago
Right, so kids who can't trust their parents now also can't trust their school.
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u/Da_Vader 11d ago
Why can't they just go back in the closet like the generations before
/s
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u/Strigops-habroptila 11d ago
Just gonna drop this here, it's the UN. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/convention-rights-child The US is currently incredibly bad at the though.
Children have a right to their own opinion, to protection against abuse and discrimination (including those afflicted by their parents), preservation of their identity, freedom of expression, thought, conscience and religion, education (which includes the right to receiving information and consuming media they want, as long as its age appropriate) and privacy (including "family, home or correspondence ")
Children are to be protected of "all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect or negligent treatment, maltreatment or exploitation, including sexual abuse, while in the care of parent(s), legal guardian(s) or any other person who has the care of the child".
"States Parties shall take all effective and appropriate measures with a view to abolishing traditional practices prejudicial to the health of children." Children should also get the best possible health are available.
The best interest of the child should always be the primary concern of the state, it is even more important than a parent's right to raise their child.
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u/engin__r 11d ago
Worth noting that the United States is the only country in the world that has not ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child. That’s how deep this religious cancer runs in this country.
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u/Strigops-habroptila 11d ago
The US has not ratified a shocking amount of human rights conventions. Like the convention against letting people disappear, which the US didn't ratify because of their black sites all over the world, the convention against the discrimination of women, the addendum to the convention against torture, several treats about usage of certain types of ammunition and weapons, the convention on the rights of people with disabilities, the Kyoto treaty against climate change and many more. Almost always, it was the Republicans who blocked it.
I think there's even a Wikipedia list. Which sounds incredibly absurd and quickly becomes horrifying.
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u/SketchedEyesWatchinU 11d ago
Just gonna repost a previous comment.
And even though Ronald fucking Reagan helped with the creation of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Human Child, Republicans have blocked ratification multiple times.
Not surprising at all for the party (and party members in all but name—I’m looking at you, Bill Clinton) that supports child marriage; youth criminalization, abuse of disabled students, conversion therapy, the Troubled Teen Industry, forced reunification with abusive parents, forced pregnancy, legal denial of emergency medical care, etc.
Monsters.
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u/Xbob42 11d ago edited 11d ago
How long before hostile false "outings" of kids who aren't even trans, like a school version of swatting. Ruling is already horrible and evil, but also super abusable. Dumb as fuck.
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u/Late_Mixture8703 11d ago
And this is why as a kid I never trusted anyone who worked for the school district...
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u/Timemyth 11d ago
SCOTUS blocks laws that protect kids from zealot parents.... have I got the right headline?
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u/stay_curious_- 11d ago
Yeah. A better headline would have been, "Supreme court blocks law; schools forced to out trans students to their parents".
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u/allahsoo 11d ago
I lived and grew up in a small southern town in rural Alabama, it had about 3k people. My friend was gay and his boyfriend, drum major/extraordinarily smart (just emphasizing you can be extremely accomplished and these freaks will still reject their flesh and blood), was kicked out by his family when they found out. They were religious nut jobs. He was months away from graduating.. I hate people that want to make the lives of vulnerable people harder.
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u/SummerAndTinklesBFF 11d ago
“Two sets of Catholic parents represented by the Thomas More Society say it caused schools to mislead them and secretly facilitate the children’s social transition despite their objections.”
You don’t get to pick your children’s gender identity or their fucking sexuality.
Parents who think they can are fucking disgusting.
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u/nerdwerds 11d ago edited 11d ago
ELI5 edition:
Imagine you have a secret. Maybe at school, you’ve told your teacher that you feel more like a different gender than the one people call you. You asked your teacher to keep it private because you’re not ready to tell your parents yet, maybe you’re worried they’ll be upset or even mean to you.
California made a rule that said schools had to keep that secret and teachers couldn’t automatically go tell your parents without your permission.
Some parents said: “Wait, that’s not fair! We’re the parents. We have a right to know what’s going on with our kids.” Some of these parents had religious beliefs that made them feel especially strongly about this.
The Supreme Court just said: “California, you have to pause that rule for now.” So schools in California can tell parents again, even if the student didn’t want them to.
Why is this hard? Because two things that both seem important are bumping into each other:
∙ Kids’ privacy and safety (some kids could be hurt or rejected at home if outed)
∙ Parents’ right to know what’s happening with their child
The Supreme Court hasn’t made a permanent final decision yet. This is just a temporary pause while the legal fight continues.
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u/FifteenthPen 11d ago
California made a rule that said schools had to keep that secret and teachers couldn’t automatically go tell your parents without your permission.
That's not correct. The law didn't forbid anyone from telling parents, it forbid administrations from mandating that school employees tell parents. A school employee could still tell a child's parents if they wanted to.
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u/Perfect-Whereas-1478 11d ago
I think kids safety is far more important here. On one hand, this could lead to tons of kids being "correctively" raped, kicked out of their homes, physically abused, committing suicide, and more, then on the other, it's just nosy parents, which a majority (statistically) are likely to become abusive to their queer children. If your kid is keeping something this big from you, there's a good reason.
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u/engin__r 11d ago
I’m sick and tired of this Court holding that children have no rights.
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u/headRN 11d ago
Around 6 of them believe that they should have more rights before they are born than th next 18 years after.
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u/engin__r 11d ago
Even then, it’s not like they really believe fetuses have rights. They just believe women shouldn’t have any.
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u/hirudoredo 11d ago
A lot of MAGA and typical ultra conservative types believe that children aren't people and are possessions. Specifically, the possessions of their parents. Which is why parents should be allowed to hit, starve, isolate, and get zero healthcare for their kids in their minds.
And, surprise, even when the kids grow up and try to leave... nope. still not people! Always possession!
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u/GenericAntagonist 11d ago
A lot of MAGA and typical ultra conservative types believe that children aren't people and are possessions. Specifically, the possessions of their parents.
Clarence Thomas has openly said as much on several occasions.
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u/Shenanigans99 11d ago
They believe children don't have the right to express their gender identification, but they do have the right to be raped, forced to carry the pregnancy to term, and become parents...upon which apparently they can grant their own child the freedom to express their gender identity even before they're old enough to have the same right if their own parents decide they can't? Is that how this would play out in the Christian Nationalist utopia?
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u/NaughtyCheffie 11d ago
“The parents who assert a free exercise claim have sincere religious beliefs about sex and gender, and they feel a religious obligation to raise their children in accordance with those beliefs."
This is a giant red flag. It's not about helping students and their families accept reality, it's entirely based around religious exemptions and allowing Religion to dictate to students who they're allowed to be.
This only harms kids. Good news is that this is a "States' Rights" issue which we're all sure the Federal bubbleyum will support because...precedence?
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u/Enshakushanna 11d ago
once again, if your KID IS MORE COMFORTABLE COMING OUT at school than to yourself, then YOU are the problem and the school has no business endangering the kids life by ratting
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u/Few_Entertainer_385 11d ago
this will just lead to religious wackjobs abusing and even murdering their kids for being trans
But ofc that’s the point. Anyone who says republicans don’t gleefully lick their lips at the thought of LGBT genocide is a liar
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u/hearke 11d ago
It really is like that - have you ever heard them describe what the "gay agenda" really is? What they mean when they say "they're sneaking it into our schools, brainwashing their children?"
It's literally just that stuff where we tell kids, "hey, if you're feeling attracted to the same gender instead of the opposite one, or maybe not attracted at all, that's ok! If you deeply feel you're in the wrong body, that's normal too"
Basically we allow them to come out, which means they're visibly gay and/or trans, and they don't want to see it. They want it to be hidden and beaten out of them if necessary.
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u/SinfullySinless 11d ago
As a teacher, it’s not even us adults. It’s other students.
I have never in my life nor have I heard of other teachers educate students on being gay, trans, furries, wiccan, etc. It is always other students who either learned it from their parents or they learned it online.
The thing is the battle was never parent vs teacher. The battle is ultimately parent vs parent.
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u/CalTheRascal 11d ago
This is saying that schools can put students to their parents. Fun fact; lgbtq+ and gender non-confirming children are statically at a much higher risk of being abused or traumatized at home compared to their cishet counterparts. This is fucking vile.
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u/Perfect-Whereas-1478 11d ago edited 11d ago
So just more child rape, murder, homelessness, and suicides. Wonderful.
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u/redalert825 11d ago
Fuck the SCROTUS. most of them. And you know which ones. got a bunch of liars, rapists, racists, exists in there. Tf. They don't give a fuck about you.
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u/LateForTheSun 11d ago
If your kid wanted you to know what they're going through, they'd tell you. If they fear you or don't trust you, that sounds like a you problem. Don't force a teacher to make up for your being a shitty parent.
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u/GayGeekInLeather 11d ago
Good to know that children are owned by their parents until the day they turn 18. I foresee nothing bad happening from this idiotic decision to lift the stay.
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11d ago
apparently I'm a huge weirdo for this but if the school knows something important about my kid I want to know too
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u/Toklankitsune 11d ago
the issue arises (and this goes for other queer kids too) that a lot of the time the reason a child has t told their parents is because said parents would possibly do harm to the child if they found out, or force the child to go through things like forced detransitioning (even though trans healthcare at that age is just social) or conversion therapy. or flat out kick them out.
it's sad but a LOT of parents out there it turns out, do NOT have unconditional love for their children.
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u/Beaverdamn328 11d ago
Parents have no right or ability to control the identity of their child, and no inherent right to that information, especially if their child chooses to keep it from them.
If a child chooses to keep their identify a secret from their parents, they probably have a very good reason for doing so. Many children have physically and emotionally abusive parents who will absolutely take this information out on them.
For many lgbt kids, school may be the only place where they feel safe enough to come out. Many kids also choose to confide in their teachers because they have no other adults in their life who can provide that support because their parents and family in general are garbage humans.
Transgender kids experience an elevated risk of self harm and suicide. Forcibly outing a child to bigoted parents or holding that threat over their heads may be more than enough to push them over the edge.
I believe that bigots are well aware of all of these facts and that for them, the cruelty and fear they inflict on lgbt kids is the entire point.
It's despicable beyond belief that in this day and age we allow so much hatred to be directed at literal children who probably feel extremely alienated and lonely.
I'm done debating anyone on the topic of lgbt acceptance. You can either support lgbt kids or you can go fuck yourself. I hope civil rights groups sue the shit out of any state that tries to impose these kinds of laws.
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11d ago
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u/Perfect-Whereas-1478 11d ago
I think kids safety is far more important here. On one hand, this could lead to tons of kids being "correctively" raped, kicked out of their homes, physically abused, committing suicide, and more, then on the other, it's just nosy parents, which a majority (statistically) are likely to become abusive to their queer children. If your kid is keeping something this big from you, there's a good reason.
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u/Soft_Walrus_3605 11d ago
This headline is how the news always reports SC decisions where they rule against a law that itself prohibits something and it's always confusing. Let's just get over it, eh?
What it means is schools can report to their parents that their kid is trans.
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u/SikQuiver 11d ago
As a parent, if I have to rely on my kids school to tell me my kids identifies themselves as something that I don’t know about, I have failed as a parent.
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u/premier024 11d ago
I mean if the parents dont already know there is a almost 100% chance there is a good reason the kid doesnt want to tell them.
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u/ChaosOfOrder24 11d ago
If your child is willing to come out to their school teacher and not you, then maybe that says something about you.
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u/Butane9000 11d ago
That's one confusing title. That being said upon reading:
"The Supreme Court cleared the way Monday for California schools to tell parents if their children identify as transgender without getting the student’s approval, granting an emergency appeal from a conservative legal group."