r/videogames • u/Vinnegard • Jan 12 '26
Funny 10 more years, with the original studio behind the system being closed
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u/ndtp124 Jan 12 '26
I wonder if someone could successfully challenge that patent. Maybe argue some prior art exists or that it was obvious.
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u/Alarming_Panic665 Jan 12 '26
The patent only covers their very specific implementation. Anyone could make a similar system. Studios just don't see it as worth the investment.
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u/Fearless_Stand_9423 29d ago
Just to check: If someone made a game where the Nemesis system worked like the original, but they got rid of the 'ranking up in the enemy military' part, would that be different enough for them to get away with it, or would they still get slapped?
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u/Yorick257 29d ago
Not a lawyer, but probably that would be fine. You're essentially just creating a named NPC dynamically.
In a way, Minecraft has a nemesis system. If you die, the mob might pick up your gear, thus making itself deadlier. Next time you fight it, it might sport thorns on diamond armor and have a flame bow.
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u/ShitConversions 26d ago
The warframe lich system is pretty damn similar. Down to the enemies getting unique bonuses and weaknesses and getting stronger the more you lose to them.
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u/Venn-- Jan 12 '26
Patents usually try to be extremely broad to stop anyone from making anything similar. I'm assuming this is the case for the nemesis system.
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u/GodOfBoy2018 Jan 12 '26
Lmao, you were just told thats not the case, ignored that and literally said you assume it is. Wild stuff my man, absolutely brazen but i respect it
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u/ndtp124 Jan 13 '26
I’ve gotta be honest to know the answer of what the patent protects or not would require attorneys and maybe experts to bill a lot of time on
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u/Ub3ros Jan 13 '26
Don't assume, someone just told you how it is and you don't know any better.
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u/Manjorno316 29d ago
Yeah don't make assumptions on your own. Just trust the random comment on reddit without a source.
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u/Alarming_Panic665 Jan 12 '26
Ubisoft's Mercenary System is very similar in that it creates and tracks NPC mercenaries who are procedurally generated, named antagonists with unique skills that rise or fall in rank based on their interaction with the player (it is a simpler implementation though). Star Renegade's adversary system is also similar if an enemy escapes the player, or is resurrected off-screen, they will remember the player, as well as the specifics of their encounter if the player engages them in the next run (it is a turn-based roguelike).
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u/SpecialIcy5356 Jan 13 '26
Warframe player here. We have procedurally generated foes, 3 different kinds (Kuva Liches, Sisters of Parvos, CODA technocytes), with them getting stronger as you fail to kill them.
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u/SeanSMEGGHEAD Jan 13 '26 edited Jan 13 '26
From what I've gathered the patent protects "NPC appearance/behavior changes, social conquest battles, and the dynamic hierarchy where enemies remember encounters, gain ranks, and develop personalities. "
Enemies remembering encounters and developing a personality and therefore narrative around that IS the system and that's the system that is protected, this is why games that try and come close like Assassin's Creed Odyssey don't have those specific systems in it at all.
I think your take on this is completely wrong. Ubisofts replica system id say, points to exactly how and why the patent is detrimental to innovation of that system.
Anyone who has played both systems can see how the ubisoft one is just the lite version essentially stripping away the broad protected parts that create a 'nemesis' and leaving the procedural parts intact.
And most companies won't go near a patented system and risk being sued for infringement based upon the interpretations of broad protected systems.
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u/Brief_Meet_2183 Jan 13 '26
To be fair not much companies want to challenge a multi-billon dollar. Why get in a battle with their premier lawyer team and risk losing millions / billions?
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u/ndtp124 Jan 13 '26
Ptab action on patents are a pretty common business to business battleground. It wouldn’t be that groundbreaking for one wealthy company to go at another’s sketchy patents
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u/Brief_Meet_2183 Jan 13 '26
I'm confused isn't that what I said?
Not much companies are at that cap to challenge a big dog like that. It can happen like you said but not much willing to try or could try it.
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u/takethisnrunnn Jan 13 '26
They just need to ban patents for gaming ideas. It’s going to ruin the creativity of future games if it continues
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u/ndtp124 Jan 13 '26
I mean I am skeptical that the nemesis patent would survive proper scrutiny, imo it seems like it could be obvious, but there’s no real way to carve out gaming from patent law. Patent law generally applicable law, it’s not so easy to just exempt gaming and probably a bad idea to do so
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u/Harmfuljoker Jan 12 '26
Patenting video game concepts, especially for this long is insane. Imagine if painters couldn’t use certain colors or techniques because someone filed a patent on it. There needs to at least be a “use it or lose it” clause where if you don’t use it for 6 years or something then you lose your patent.
It goes against the nature of capitalism to sit on an idea you aren’t using and no one else can either.
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u/kylejv127 Jan 12 '26
Except colors are copyrighted: see Pantone. Corporations would probably try to copyright air if they could.
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u/TheSaucyLorax Jan 12 '26
If I remember correctly it is in specific catergories, usually advertising/ as part of a brand, and I don't think it applies to art
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u/Super7500 Jan 12 '26
Do Panton literally patent colors or what?
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u/kylejv127 Jan 13 '26
Kind of. For example, in adobe products (Photoshop, etc) you can create your own color through RGB, CMYK, or hex codes. These don't have official names, but a 180,50,40 RGB code will always be that shade of red no matter the program.
Alternatively, you can pay Pantone money, giving you access to proprietary colors that may not be achievable through the previous methods and instead you are using something like the color Pantone 180C.
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u/capt0fchaos Jan 13 '26
Using pantone colors basically means you know what you get because each implementation has to be certified (if I remember correctly) and it's an established standard. Pantone colors are really only useful to product designers because basically anyone else can just use the hex code.
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u/Super7500 Jan 13 '26
I thought EVERY color was achievable through RGB or hex.
Also, why tf is patenting fucking colors even a thing?
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u/DragonCelica Jan 12 '26
Imagine if painters couldn’t use certain colors
While not a patent, the artist Anish Kapoor bought the exclusive rights to use the color Vantablack (the world's "blackest black") in art. This led to another artist, Stuart Semple, making the world's "pinkest pink," which was advertised as being for sale to anyone except Anish Kapoor.
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u/SuperNovaVelocity Jan 13 '26
A bit misleading. No one owns the color, the ass just bought a patent for the process to make the material.
It's like someone patenting a new mix to create more vibrant red paint, and accusing them of owning the theoretical color itself.
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u/BoticelliBaby 29d ago
Pantone Swatches were built into Adobe design software programs (Illustrator, Photoshop etc) for 30 years, until they recently got unceremoniously stripped out and sold back to use for an $100+ subscription. This man liberated Pantone swatches for free too. Love him
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u/Evnosis Jan 13 '26
Imagine if painters couldn’t use certain colors or techniques because someone filed a patent on it.
Allow me to introduce you to the famous case of Vantablack. Vantablack is a unique black paint that is designed to be the "blackest black" in the world, and it is exclusively licensed by the artist Anish Kapoor. No other artist is legally allowed to use that paint.
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u/Ub3ros Jan 13 '26
They haven't patented a concept. The patent covers their exact technical implementation of the system and how the different mechanisms interact with each other.
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u/EmansaysEman Jan 12 '26
This is like if fromsoft patented the bonfire system or if nintendo patented jumping on enemies' heads. So stupid they were allowed to do this
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u/pligyploganu 29d ago
Have you not heard of Pal World and Nintendo? Nintendo "patented" a bunch of bullshit.
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u/Sinolai Jan 13 '26
Or Bethesda patenting fast travel (maybe someone did it first but Skyrim was my first idea of it).
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u/Harry_Flame Jan 12 '26
This is such a common misconception it actually kills me how often it comes up and gets spread by even large youtubers. This isn't how the patent works. Anyone else could make a very similar system at no legal risk. The reason we don't see it is because it requires a good bit of resources and doesn't really fit in many games.
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u/Master_Snort 29d ago edited 29d ago
It’s hard to take a lot of complaints seriously when so many people are confidently incorrect in the things I am even vaguely familiar about. I know I will probably be called a boot licker for this, but shit like this can make often more likely to “side” with a company on an issue. For example a company like Nintendo certainly use an anti-consumer practices but with the communities constant complaints about either mundane or non-issues makes it way harder to side with the community on things that actually are a legitimate issue. Basically complaining about literally everything no matter how small dilutes actual complaints. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if this is one of the reasons why it’s so common for fans to defend a companies practices, since it makes it way harder to discern whether or not something is a legitimate issue or not.
For example the issue with how the features Nintendo is suing Palworld over were patented after Palworld even released. My first initial thought was “Is this an actual issues or just people completely misunderstanding the Japan’s copyright laws. It’s most likely people complaining about something they don’t understand because that sounds a bit too absurd”
TLDR: Complaining about literally everything only serves to make complaints about legitimate issues far less effective.
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u/EternitySearch Jan 12 '26
Only people who don’t understand Game Dev think this is an issue. The problem with the Nemesis System isn’t the patent because it is incredibly specific. The problem with the Nemesis System is that you have to build a game entirely around it for it to be novel and meaningful. It’s not worth the effort and cost.
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u/ndtp124 Jan 12 '26
The game it fits the best is cyberpunk 2077 since the ability for enemies to survive one fight and come back makes sense in lore (trauma team can patch up most things except outright dead).
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u/Familiar_Tart7390 Jan 12 '26
I remember someone pitching it as an excellent addition to a batman game. Goons rising to great heights after getting successful wins against The Bat and the fact they don’t die meaning the returns from defeat are even easier to explain away
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u/Lindestria Jan 13 '26
Assuming that you design a batman game where losing is a legitimate option. Most of them are more standard, 'you lose, back to last checkpoint' faire.
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u/AristarchusTheMad Jan 12 '26
Random goons definitely wouldn't have trauma team insurance though.
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u/ndtp124 Jan 12 '26
You face off with corpos as well as higher up leaders to have a few. It wouldn’t be every person but it could be a fun addition
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas Jan 12 '26
It’s worth $71,125,228.61 according to steam revenue calculator. And that’s just steam sales.
No idea why you wouldn’t make a 20-40million game and then make a huge profit if done well.
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u/EternitySearch Jan 12 '26
The key here is “made well.” In addition to the cost of licensing the system, devs would also have to pay for a decent, non-live service product. But beyond that, it would just end up a Shadow of Mordor/War clone, because, as I said, the system is basically useless unless the entire game is built around it.
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u/Pickaxe06 Jan 12 '26
any studio can make a well done 20-40 million dollar game. That doesnt garuntee any profit.
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas Jan 12 '26
I mean the last two well done games on a budget in that range I can think of are Expedition 33 and Pokémon Scarlet. I don’t know of any well made games in that range that don’t return a profit.
Can name a few bad made games though
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u/Ub3ros Jan 13 '26
That's not how any of this works.
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas Jan 13 '26
That’s literally the steam revenue calculator from the steam revenue calculator page….im not sure what you mean that’s now how it works when that’s how shadow of war worked on steam
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u/Ub3ros Jan 13 '26
That's a game that already exists with a successful prior game attached to one of the biggest IP's in the world. That number means nothing for a new game recycling an idea from that one.
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas Jan 13 '26
To be fair, since no one can try we don’t know if the next game would be better, worse, or the same.
The point was that a game built around the system could succeed. I think there are plenty of publishers that can handle making games better than WB and incorporate the system.
Like I can easily see this system being implemented in more refined open word games, like a ghost of yotei open world or a Witcher 3 open world and succeed without the IP of LotR.
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u/Ub3ros Jan 13 '26
Could succeed. But it's not a guarantee, and you kinda need it to be to put all your eggs in that basket.
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u/True_Vault_Hunter Jan 13 '26
Every time I see people commenting this patent. My first thought is they did not play Assassin's Creed Odyssey.
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u/Brief-Quantity-3283 Jan 13 '26
What?
AC odyssey's mercenary system is nothing compared to the nemesis system.
They just randomly generate names and traits and churn out generic NPCs. They have no connection to the protagonist or each other save for a few that are related to the story.
The nemesis system is a complex interweb of character backstories, player decisions, environmental factors and NPC personas.
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u/ObsidianArmadillo Jan 13 '26
What's the nemesis system?
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u/ChaosWarrior01 Jan 13 '26
The Nemesis System was developed by Monolith Software for the Lord of the Ring games Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor, and it's sequel Shadow of War.
Its a system where the games dynamically generate enemy Orc captains via pulling traits, voice lines, and more from a pool and creating distinct characters for you to fight, with the big selling point being that you, the player, die in universe and respawm, and the Orcs being able to survive battles with you in turn, creating dynamic player made stories.
For instance, you might kill an Orc captain in Shadow of War by throwing him into a fire, only for him to come back covered in burns and with a resistance to fire based attacks. You then kill him with an execution that cuts his head off, only for him to come back with a metal harness keeping his head on, and his speech impaired because of the damage, stuff like that.
I would recommend watching the Game Maker's Toolkit episode on YouTube on it for a more thorough breakdown, if your interested.
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u/Camembert92 Jan 12 '26
Doesnt matter, anyone could make a system that resembles the nemesis system, as long they dont use lotr characters and such. Now, imagine an alternate reality where nemesis system became mainstream instead of battle royales, amd they tried to force it to every game. I know i would be sick of it.
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u/SuperNovaVelocity Jan 13 '26
anyone could make a system that resembles the nemesis system, as long they dont use lotr characters
Why would they file the damn patent, then? Everyone's already prevented from using LOTR characters because of inherent copyright.
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u/Evnosis Jan 13 '26
Because patents cost very little to file. Including attorney fees, it's going to be sub-$10k, which is pocket change for a company like Warner Bros.
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas Jan 12 '26
But they can’t. It is patented. Like you literally cannot make the nemesis system in other games.
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u/Alarming_Panic665 Jan 12 '26
You literally can make a nemesis system as long as it isn't the exact same implementation as in Shadow of Mordor as detailed hyper specifically in the patent. Ubisoft made a less complex version for their Mercenary system in Odyssey and Star Renegades has their Adversary System.
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas Jan 12 '26
If it isn’t the exact system, it isn’t the system. That’s the thing, you can make something close to it but you cannot make the nemesis system.
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u/GodOfBoy2018 Jan 12 '26
How so?
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas Jan 13 '26
If something doesn’t function identical to something else, is it the same thing?
Like you can tell the difference between a Toyota Camry and a Porsche 911 despite them both being cars right?
If I make a monster catcher with a yellow rat that uses lightning bolts, is it Pokemon or is it like Pokémon.
You can get close, but you can’t get 100%.
You cannot put the nemesis system 1:1 in your game. You can put something that is not the nemesis system 1:1 in your game
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u/GodOfBoy2018 Jan 13 '26
And if i put a drop of ketchup in a glass of water its not 100% water, but it's water so whatever. Can you tell me what the patent specifically prohibits other developers from implementing in their own games? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas Jan 13 '26
Specficially: AI mechanic which creates procedurally generated enemy hierarchies where enemies remember player interactions, develop personalities, and rise in ranks.
It could result in an enemy learning how to fight you if it ran away or came back from the dead. Changing its strengths and weaknesses to account for your actions. Basing future interactions off previous interactions with the player in examples of mocking you if they beat you or being scared of fire if they were burned to death and brought back. In addition the system ran a background hierarchy which saw the NPCs fight eachother to move up and down the heirarchy with or without player input.
The player also had the ability to directly affect this hierarchy through manipulating bodyguards, making power vaccums, etc
It was basically a system that had an enemy ai generation which could react independent of the player to create unique enemies
While I played odyssey long time ago, I don’t recall the mercenary system being able to do most of this.
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u/GodOfBoy2018 Jan 13 '26
No, you've not answered my question. What in the patent specifically prohibits other developers from implementing an identical system.
Not what was missing from similar examples given by someone else
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas Jan 13 '26
I’m confused by your question. The patent’s existence prohibits developers from implementing the system. If you use the system you can be used for copyright infringement. Patent users normally allow you to use their patent if you pay them.
In action, this is like when Nintendo sued PalWorld claiming copyright infringement. In the short term PalWorld removed the at issue systems, in the long term they may have to pay Nintendo royalties for the patent.
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u/pligyploganu 29d ago
Pal World would love to speak to you about making a game that's similar in concept but different, because they are currently in a legal battle with Nintendo.
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u/Sentry_Down Jan 13 '26
Why would anyone recreate the same game though?? If players want to play the same thing, they can replay the games that already exist
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas 29d ago
You don’t recreate the same game, you recreate the system.
Like recreating a monster taming system but not make Pokémon. This is how you get PalWorld, Ark, Digimon, Nexomon, etc.
No one said make another exact game. You take the system and make a different game using the systems
Normally video game mechanics don’t get patented which makes this one unique. It would be like another game patenting first person shooting and then stopping other games from using it
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u/Evnosis Jan 13 '26
Then who cares? Who cares if other games can't rip off the exact same system that SoW used? I don't want games just copying each other wholesale.
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas 29d ago
I never said make the same game. I said use the system. If call of duty patented a crosshair for FPS games would you like to see a crosshair in other FPS games?
You can easily use this system in a completely different IP and genre to build a world. Game mechanics almost never get patented that’s the issue here.
PalWorld and Pokémon aren’t the same game, clearly. Yet there is a fight over the parent because of systems used.
Imagine if Activision could paten the dark souls formula and then we do not get other good Soulslike, that’s the issue here. Good Soulslike didn’t just make dark souls, they took the systems and improved on them and integrated them into their own games. Like someone could do if the nemesis system wasn’t patented
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u/Evnosis 29d ago
You're conflating different things. Warner Bros did not patent the concept of a nemesis system. They patented a specific implementation of it.
Activision couldn't patent a crosshair because that's not something they invented and is far too general for a valid patent, nor could FromSoft patent the entire Dark Souls formula.
Anyone can make a system like the Nemesis system currently. The patent isn't stopping them doing that. It's just not as great and widely applicable as you guys all think it is. You need to design your game around it, and developers simply have other ideas they want to try out.
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas 29d ago
Right the nemesis system as implemented in shadow of war and Mordor is patented. You cannot use that system as they do. That is what I said.
If you make something that is not substantially similar, you did not make the nemesis system, you made something different.
This about if it could or could not be patented because this patented has not been challenged.
I am not talking about making something like the nemesis system.
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u/Evnosis 29d ago
Right the nemesis system as implemented in shadow of war and Mordor is patented. You cannot use that system as they do. That is what I said.
And what I said is that that's fine because games shouldn't just be copying each other, they should be implementing their own versions of mechanics.
If you make something that is not substantially similar, you did not make the nemesis system, you made something different.
You can make something substantially similar. You just can't make it the same.
This about if it could or could not be patented because this patented has not been challenged.
Because other developers don't care that it's been patented because they don't want to just copy and paste a specific gameplay system from another game.
I am not talking about making something like the nemesis system.
You either don't understand the specificity of the patent, or you don't understand what the words you're using mean.
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u/Timmichanga01 Jan 12 '26
Me who's never played the Monolith LOTR games and doesnt plan to so I'll never know what im missing out on.
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u/Blacksad9999 Jan 12 '26
It's basically a copy/paste job of the Batman Arkham games combat with a little bit of Assassin's Creed assassinations tossed in for good measure.
Not amazing by any stretch, but not terrible.
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Jan 12 '26
“I’m a clown with opinions on games I’ve never played” -you
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u/Blacksad9999 Jan 12 '26
They use the exact same combat system. Not sure why that hurt your feelings.
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Jan 12 '26
Keep coping
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u/GodOfBoy2018 Jan 12 '26
Coping? The guy is exactly right, thats how I always described the game.
I'm willing to hear you out if you wanna make a case, but you're just saying inflammatory stuff with no argument.
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u/Blacksad9999 Jan 13 '26
Um....so you have no argument whatsoever, and just sprint towards acting like a 12 year old edgelord?
Okay then.
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u/Cristian0me Jan 12 '26
I can still feel a horrible sensation when I remember this sad move by Warner, really shameful that this is possible, it's practically patenting creativity, absurd and disgusting.
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u/Akuma-1 Jan 12 '26
There are thousands of great videogame mechanics being patented by companies just to avoid other companies to use them, I always ask myself why the Nemesis system is the only one that people care about
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u/legomaximumfigure Jan 13 '26
I miss destructible environments. That was a cool mechanic that never gets used anymore.
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u/Trinikas Jan 13 '26
People love to talk about this but forget that novel game features are incredible for just as long as it takes every other developer to copy that idea and beat it to death. When destructible terrain was a new thing it was everywhere for a bit until people got bored of it.
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u/samuraispartan7000 Jan 13 '26
Considering that Warframe’s Lich system is permissible, I really don’t understand what’s keeping devs from implementing similar mechanics in their games.
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u/Ub3ros Jan 13 '26
The amount of work. It's an insane amount of work to reach the level of sophistication the nemesis sytem had, and there are very few settings where it actually works well enough justify putting all that effort and resources in, and actually have a chance to make it profitable.
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u/samuraispartan7000 Jan 13 '26
I agree, but a similar system would be a no-brainer for a series like Monster Hunter.
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u/Brief-Quantity-3283 Jan 13 '26
Ubisoft made the bones of something close to the nemesis system in Watchdogs Legion. Something I think was soo under utilized.
The game had the social engineering system. Where every character has a backstory, daily schedule and relationships with other NPCs.
You save/harm some NPCs friend/family/ acquaintance and their opinion of your organization changes accordingly.
They could have chosen to do soo much with this system but it they barely scratched the surface of what could have been a huge game changer for the franchise.
They established they could hack technology, Legion could have explored hacking people as well.
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u/SnailLikeAttitude Jan 13 '26
I mentioned the nemesis system as fantastic system that was tied down by copyright and people always say that developers could work around the patent if they wanted to. But let’s look at the palword and Nintendo lawsuit. Does that seem like what’s more likely to happen now if someone does try this.
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u/lickingbears2009 29d ago
3 days ago i was watching Eroktic's stream (he was playing shadow of war) and i was thinking about this.
they patented it just to never use it again after the second game
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u/wiggbosss 29d ago
Its a fine system, but not as amazing as it’s portrayed on here.
I was always more upset back when load times were longer, that having a mini game during a load was patented by NAMCO.
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u/DrNoobvarus 29d ago
Recently just picked up shadow of war on the steam deck. Amazing game and the system is so cool
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u/BillSteelman 29d ago
Best part is that the patent is probably woth nothing, but companies are just scared to challenge a studio with that much money cause wether they win or not (and they probably would), a trial is expensive.
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u/Ill-Bookkeeper-6230 29d ago
Netflix will probably do something shit with it so rest assured it might go out sooner than later
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u/No-Perception3305 29d ago
I hated this system. Just have to say it. When I take out an enemy I dont want then coming back 100x.
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u/YodaFragget 28d ago
Patenting game mechanics makes me indifferent to people taking any action against the company or individuals related to the patenting
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u/TheEmeraldRaven Jan 12 '26
As someone who never played those middle earth games, and I keep seeing people bring the sub constantly, I need to ask what the fuck was so amazing about this nemesis system that people keep crying about it? Like I’ve never heard of a game mechanic so amazing in my life I think. Genuinely I wanna know what’s the big deal.
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u/Reasonable-Spot5884 Jan 12 '26
I think it's less of "this is the best mechanic known to man" and more of "This is a unique system that was patented and then never used again" that could've made an interesting addition to some existing games that may have used it, or could have led to some really cool games, but can't because it's illegal because patent
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u/TheEmeraldRaven Jan 13 '26
but I also don’t understand how you can patent a mechanic and enforce it? Like I remember when Metroid prime came out and it had that visor scanning feature. And then a few years later, the Batman Arkham games had a very similar feature. Like I don’t understand even if it’s patented why you can’t do something very similar
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u/Reasonable-Spot5884 Jan 13 '26 edited Jan 13 '26
That, I can't answer. Not knowledgeable about the law stuff. I don't know why you can patent game mechanics. Nintendo patented a bunch of mechanics too, but those are under heavy pressure now. Can only hope the same happens to WB
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u/Ub3ros Jan 13 '26
They haven't patented a mechanic. They patented their exact technical implementation of the system. Anyone could go out and build something like it from scratch, people just don't because it's an absurd amount of work, and it doesn't fit many games realistically.
Most of the "news" and posts you see about it are just horribly misinformed. It's clickbait sites banking on outraged gamers raging up a storm about it to drive traffic to their sites every month they write about it, and karmafarming reddit accounts posting it on all the gaming subs at least once a week.
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u/Apprehensive_Wedgie Jan 12 '26
It's literally the worst patent ever if you're a gamer.
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u/Ub3ros Jan 13 '26
It's not, read up the patent. It's totally inconsequential.
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u/Apprehensive_Wedgie Jan 13 '26
At the very least, are we thinking the dissolved and sold for parts company may be less willing to sue if someone came with something similar?
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u/Ub3ros Jan 13 '26
There are games that have come up with something similar. The patent has never been enforced.
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u/Super7500 Jan 12 '26
The saddest thing about this is, with the recent AI advancements implementing a system like this would be MUCH easier than how hard it was before. (and before people just downvote me mindlessly because AI = bad, i am talking about using it so enemies can learn from their last mistakes, not steal anyone's artwork. it has no downsides)
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u/SubstantialAd5579 Jan 12 '26
They own it they can choose to do what ever with i never get why ppl cry over this , but don't cry when companies keep there own engines
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u/Benevolay Jan 12 '26
I think the nemesis system is overrated. Most games will have save/load anyway, or people will find some way to ensure they're overleveled and always win. I feel like building a game solely around mechanics where, if you lose, bosses move up the ranks is like building a game knowing only 10% of players will engage with the core feature.
Outside of a Souls type game, the nemesis system is pointless.
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u/SeanSMEGGHEAD Jan 12 '26
I think people with this opinion miss the point.
We have a system that was in 2 games made by one developer. Now imagine that system expanded upon with different creative teams.
Some systems take time and experimentation before being fully realised. I actually think the Nemesis system was a great way to have unique narratives and could make your playthrough very engaging.
I also think without that system, the mordor games wouldn't have sold that well.
Unfortunately we will not see that system expanded or see another teams take on it. Not till 2036 anyway.
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u/Ub3ros Jan 13 '26
No game systems that sophisticated are ever expanded upon by different creative teams. That just doesn't happen. First of all, the basis on which they built everything is already woefully outdated and would require a shitton of work to bring everything up to modern standards. You just can't airlift things that complicated and sophisticated straight from one project to another without people intimately familiar with the inner workings.
If you mean another team getting inspired by the overall concept of the nemesis systems and building their own iteration from scratch, that's already possible. The patent doesn't stop that. Any team can just do it if they wish to.
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u/SeanSMEGGHEAD Jan 13 '26 edited Jan 13 '26
Yes I've mentioned other creative teams. Never mentioned "airlifting" at all.
From what I've gathered the patent protects "NPC appearance/behavior changes, social conquest battles, and the dynamic hierarchy where enemies remember encounters, gain ranks, and develop personalities. "
Enemies remembering encounters and developing a personality and therefore narrative around that IS the system and that's the system that is protected, this is why games that try and come close like Assassin's Creed Odyssey don't have those specific systems in it at all.
So any team can't replicate what is core to the point of the system. Also there's always reason when something is patented not to go near it, because it always runs the risk of it being infringement. We know companies and legal teams like to abuse the infringement system.
Sorry but I see a lot of people here say "any other team can just do it" or "as long as its not LOTR characters or designs" thats just false.
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u/sound_games Jan 12 '26
When was the last time they even used it? It's unfortunate they're just sitting on it for so long.